The Problem Of Evil?

[Machinist]

And what's funny, is that from an atheist perspective, I was determined by non-rational forces to not like it.

I don't like that one bit!

[seer]

And what's funny, is that from an atheist perspective, I was determined by non-rational forces to not like it.

I don't like that one bit!

[Stoic]

It's like there really is no agency here at all.

For a very narrow definition of "agency" I suppose that's true.

There is no "I" that is not a product of non rational forces.

I don't like it one bit.

That kind of implies that you'd rather be a sentient robot built with advanced technology than a product of unguided evolution.

[Stoic]

And what's funny, is that from an atheist perspective, I was determined by non-rational forces to not like it.

I don't like that one bit!

I have come to accept that what I like or don't like was not determined by me, with some minor exceptions. (I think I could have developed a taste for coffee, if I had wanted to, and would not have developed a taste for beer, except that I wanted to. But ultimately the decision about whether to develop a taste for something is determined by other desires, which were not determined by me.)

I don't think it matters where my desires ultimately come from. They are my desires, and that's all that really matters.

[Tassman]

He made me as a free individual knowing what I would freely do.

He made you to be as he eternally knew you would be and what you would do – he ‘built’ you that way.

[Tassman]

Compatibilism is just determinism by another name. They simply redefine free will.

No, Compatibilism is the belief that freewill and determinism are mutually compatible.

The fact is Tass, if you are correct, everything we think do or say is predetermined by antecedent conditions and biology. You have no choice in posting the above, and you have no choice as to whether you believe it is true or not. You just spit out what you have been programmed to.

You have yet to explain how one can have unfettered Libertarian Freewill when our decisions are demonstrably influenced by factors such as genetic inheritance, mental capacity, social conditioning and subconscious memories.

[seer]

No, Compatibilism is the belief that freewill and determinism are mutually compatible.

Nonsense, Compatibilism does not that teach that we could do "otherwise" - that is their definition, according to Dennett. Yes you can act on your desires or wants - but those too are determined. But a dog could do that.

[seer]

I have come to accept that what I like or don't like was not determined by me, with some minor exceptions. (I think I could have developed a taste for coffee, if I had wanted to, and would not have developed a taste for beer, except that I wanted to. But ultimately the decision about whether to develop a taste for something is determined by other desires, which were not determined by me.)

I don't think it matters where my desires ultimately come from. They are my desires, and that's all that really matters.

Yet, you were determined to say the above and believe that it is true - whether true or not. The forces that determine your responses know nothing of truth, truth does not enter in.

[rogue06]

You have yet to explain how one can have unfettered Libertarian Freewill when our decisions are demonstrably influenced by factors such as genetic inheritance, mental capacity, social conditioning and subconscious memories.

Influence does not override free will.

Your kids can recommend something but it'll still be your decision whether or not you do it.

Your friends can tell you that something is a good idea but it'll still be your decision whether or not you do it.

And your body may be incredibly attracted to some cute girl but it'll still be your decision whether or not you pursue her.

[Machinist]

Yet, you were determined to say the above and believe that it is true - whether true or not. The forces that determine your responses know nothing of truth, truth does not enter in.

I don't think Stoic would disagree with this. Do you think he would? Let see.

I think that basically sums up atheism.

[Machinist]

And your body may be incredibly attracted to some cute girl but it'll still be your decision whether or not you pursue her.

I can think of a few women that could probably override my free will...that is, if I were in that situation...but i'm not. God may be looking out for me.

[Alien]

And your body may be incredibly attracted to some cute girl but it'll still be your decision whether or not you pursue her.

You mean I've always had a choice? Sounds like I have a lot of apologies to offer.

[Stoic]

Yet, you were determined to say the above and believe that it is true - whether true or not.

You say that as if you think it's important.

The forces that determine your responses know nothing of truth, truth does not enter in.

The forces that determine my responses know nothing of truth, yet they caused me to care about the truth, and to try to make my statements truthful, so truth does enter in.

[seer]

The forces that determine my responses know nothing of truth, yet they caused me to care about the truth, and to try to make my statements truthful, so truth does enter in.

How do you know that your caring about truth is true, since the forces that determined you to believe that don't?

[Stoic]

How do you know that your caring about truth is true, since the forces that determined you to believe that don't?

I think you are confusing beliefs with desires. Beliefs are either true or false. Desires you either have or you don't.