Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

[rogue06]

Tzedakah is justice as well as charity and is a commandment. This Jewish commandment is adapted in the so-called "Judgement of the Nations" in Matthew.

All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, ³³ and he will put the sheep at his right hand and the goats at the left. ³⁴ Then the king will say to those at his right hand, ‘Come, you that are blessed by my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world; ³⁵ for I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you welcomed me, ³⁶ I was naked and you gave me clothing, I was sick and you took care of me, I was in prison and you visited me.’ ³⁷ Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry and gave you food, or thirsty and gave you something to drink? ³⁸ And when was it that we saw you a stranger and welcomed you, or naked and gave you clothing? ³⁹ And when was it that we saw you sick or in prison and visited you?’ ⁴⁰ And the king will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did it to one of the least of these who are members of my family,^[g] you did it to me.’ ⁴¹ Then he will say to those at his left hand, ‘You that are accursed, depart from me into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels; ⁴² for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, ⁴³ I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not give me clothing, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.’ ⁴⁴ Then they also will answer, ‘Lord, when was it that we saw you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not take care of you?’ ⁴⁵ Then he will answer them, ‘Truly I tell you, just as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ ⁴⁶ And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

Again charity is not socialism. Jesus commanded that we help others on the personal level, not set up a committee or government to do the job for us.

Why is this so difficult for folks like you to grasp?

[eider]

John the Baptist's father was a Levite, and "ben" is more likely than "bar," as you have stated.

Well thank goodness for that!

[eider]

And you have no clue what he said and did or else you would quote it rather than doing this dance of yours that you do when you get called out on a nonsensical claim.

Just read the quotes I gave from the gospels, rogue. And please do think about them.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Again charity is not socialism. Jesus commanded that we help others on the personal level, not set up a committee or government to do the job for us.

Why is this so difficult for folks like you to grasp?

I have never alleged that charity and justice are socialism.

If you had read my first reply to this thread you would have deduced that.

[eider]

I'm still waiting for him to provide a quote from "the Baptist" that demonstrates he was a socialist. The fact that he demands that others look it up for themselves indicates that he has nothing. Again.

My goodness! Everything the Baptist did as described shows that he was for Social Justice, and against a wicked oppressive corrupted Temple regime.
And you still write about folks in the third person........ nasty habit, that.

[eider]

I'm still waiting for him to provide a quote from "the Baptist" that demonstrates he was a socialist. The fact that he demands that others look it up for themselves indicates that he has nothing. Again.

Hey! Rogue..... what I'm waiting for is for you to tell me what you think Jesus was doing, and why, just using gospel verses.
THat would be useful. If you can.

[eider]

Again charity is not socialism.

Calling out against Temple wickedness, greed and corruption was not charity! It was all about Justice. Social Justice, if you like.

Jesus commanded that we help others on the personal level, not set up a committee or government to do the job for us.

Why is this so difficult for folks like you to grasp?

Sources please! Quotes please!
If you can.....

[tabibito]

I'm still waiting for him to provide a quote from "the Baptist" that demonstrates he was a socialist. The fact that he demands that others look it up for themselves indicates that he has nothing. Again.

To be fair, he did say that when he calls them socialists he doesn't mean that they were Socialists.

[rogue06]

Just read the quotes I gave from the gospels, rogue. And please do think about them.

Let's pretend that I'm completely incapable of doing that without being directly led. Which verses should I read where "the Baptist" talks approvingly of socialism?

[Cow Poke]

Do you want to talk about Jesus's comments about a disgusting, corrupted, greedy upper class Priesthood and his points about wealth and poverty, or not?

He wasn't just attacking the current system - he was offering Salvation and eternal life.

[Cow Poke]

Matthew {18:11} For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

Yes, he had come....... you're interpretation of that is just totally different to mine. I am writing about what I believe Jesus came to do on this thread.
The Temple corruption, and a Priesthood supposed to be devoted to the people......... these were lost.

And He clearly said that He was the only way to God - He was here to offer that Salvation to all who would believe.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Hi HA. Progressive Socialist? Yes.
Jesus redacted laws and customs, progressing away from outdated ways.
Jesus definitely supported the Old Testament poor laws by actually carrying some out.
Jesus definitely spoke out against the hoarding of wealth, greed and corrupt practices and his actions showed all this clearly.

So..... Progressive, and Socialist. His mission focused upon everybody together. Social.

Firstly, we have no original MSS of any of the four canonical gospels. Nor were these texts intended to be accurate historical records, their primary aim was to preach and teach. Secondly, they are all written long after the death of this man we have come to know as Jesus of Nazareth, and by anonymous individuals who never knew the real man [and possibly never visited the region]. The Gospel of Mark certainly appears to lack any first-hand knowledge of the geography of Palestine. Thirdly, they are all influenced by Pauline concepts of what Jesus represented, and fourthly the texts as they have come down to us have been revised and adapted.

In order to understand the historical figure of Jesus of Nazareth he has to be placed in context.

What the gospels gloss over is the influence of Rome in the conditions of ordinary people in Galilee. If we simply accept the gospels, the region is primarily a peaceful rural society where people went about their business and fishermen tended their nets. The reality could not be more different. Hyam Maccoby noted that those gospels' lack of reference to Rome and its pervasive influence is comparable to reading about Vichy France without any reference to the Nazis.

Galilee was a client kingdom but it existed as such only at the will of Rome and so to begin to understand the figure of Jesus in his historical context we have to understand how Roman imperial policies affected the people of Galilee. Nor were the common people docile and resigned to the situation. There were memories of times when they had been free from the control of ruling elites [foreign or domestic].. Their Hebrew texts held stories where, even when subjugated, they had successfully reasserted their freedom. These stories and their own history were known to the ordinary people albeit mostly in oral form.

Furthermore, prophecy was still very much believed among the Jewish people, and, judging from comments made by Josephus, there were various prophetic figures that appeared from the late first century BCE into the first century CE. Despite Josephus’ hostility It would appear that these popular prophets were of two fairly distinct types. The oracular prophet was to pronounce impending judgement or redemption by God, while the more “muscular” prophet was to inspire and lead popular movements [often with violence] to anticipate redemptive action from God.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

He wasn't just attacking the current system - he was offering Salvation and eternal life.

That is Paul's idea.

[Sparko]

It's not about what the term 'Socialist' means today........ it's all about what Jesus wanted back then..... and what the Laws of Moses were about as well.

It you try to shackle the word 'Socialist' to people like Stalin then you're going to come unstuck. That's just an example. Most Communist Leaders are not true Socialists, they don't believe in ending unreasonable wealth and unreasonable poverty. Jesus just did.

If you read the Baptist's (John's) sayings again you might see his feelings about property, and especially the corruption of an hypocritical Priesthood.

You were the one trying to "shackle" the phrase "progressive socialist" to Jesus and John the baptist.

Jesus and John were both teaching about caring for others, and sharing. Love your neighbor as yourself. That is not socialism, even if that is what socialists claim they are all about. Socialism is a form of government, not a way of life. It is about forcing equality on people by taking from those who have and giving to those who don't. It is not voluntary. It is not "sharing" it is stealing and redistributing by force.

[rogue06]

My goodness! Everything the Baptist did as described shows that he was for Social Justice, and against a wicked oppressive corrupted Temple regime.
And you still write about folks in the third person........ nasty habit, that.

Once again, please cite the actual verses that demonstrates that he was as you proclaim a "progressive socialist." Being against corrupt officials does not make one a socialist.

For whatever reason you continue to refuse to provide the verses. If you have them then cite them. No more "my goodness" go look for yourself. You made the claim so it is up to you to back it up. That is -- IF you can.