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Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

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  • Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

    Was Jesus a Progressive Socialist?

    By offering Baptism to the people, both Jesus and the Baptist were giving cleansing and redemption for nothing, thus cutting off the vast flow of money in the the Temple and also to the greedy citizens around Jerusalem who even overcharged Temple visitors for shelter in outhouses, sheds and so forth.

    By redacting so many rules and laws Jesus was giving the people an opportunity to Progress out of the old corrupted and hypocritical regime.

    By promoting the sharing of wealth Jesus did not accept the situation of a few very wealthy people in a land with so many poor.

    Progressive Socialist?

    But members may have verses which show that Jesus was neither one nor t'other of these?

    Mark {10:21} Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor,

    Matthew {9:13} But go ye and learn what [that] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

    Matthew {12:7} But if ye had known what [this] meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

    Matthew {23:25} Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess.




  • #2
    Yes.

    Comment


    • #3
      No. This gets beaten into a fine pink mist every year as Christmas approaches.


      Jesus definitely instructed His followers to take care of the poor, but charity is not communism. Early Christians were a group of people helping each other out, a family not a government. And nobody was forced to give anything. They shared it.

      It was how they took care of themselves and each other -- a very small group that in effect was an extended family. Nowhere is it even suggested that this was supposed to be a blueprint for how a nation or government should do things. In fact, in I Timothy 5:8, where we read

      But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.


      makes it clear that it is an individual responsibility and not something to be sloughed off onto others to do it for you. The simple fact of the matter is that Jesus instructed His followers to take care of the poor. He never said anything about getting the government to force others to do so -- which is what socialism does.

      Moreover, in II Thessalonians 3:10 Paul tells us that any assistance that we give out needs to be paired with responsibility

      For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.


      Those who slack off, refuse to work, and expect a handout should get nothing. They should be refused aid. That contradicts the whole "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" mantra of the left.

      Now I know you prefer to ignore Paul, so let's look at exactly what Jesus taught.

      In His parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30) Jesus has the main character giving according to their ability not according to their need. And note how he took back what he gave the servant who buried the money and did nothing with it rather than used it to increase the owners wealth and gave it to the servant who had increased his wealth ten-fold.

      Often the parable concerning the Good Samaritan is put forth as evidence that Jesus supported Socialism. But the Good Samaritan took it upon himself to help out. What he didn't do is walk off and contact any government officials and told them to do it instead. And he didn't expect the innkeeper to assume the cost of caring for the injured man but instead paid it out of his (the Samaritan's) own pocket.

      Again, Jesus taught that it is a personal responsibility to care for those in need. Please note that Jesus never told anyone that instead of helping others in need themselves they should get the Pharisees, scribes or even Roman officials to do it for you. It is your responsibility.

      And let's be blunt, Socialism is not about sharing but rather seizing someone's property by force or threat of force (if you don't voluntarily hand it over) and giving it away including to those who do nothing but hold out their hand and then demand more. And keep in mind that the Bible does not condone in any way shape or form someone demanding money from others. Instead it explicitly teaches that we should not covet what others have (Exodus 20:17; cf. Deuteronomy 5:21)

      You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's


      Socialism teaches that we should look at what other people have, crave it and then decide on what should be taken away from them so that we can have it.

      Finally, "common ownership" didn't mean everything was shared. As Acts 12:12; 16:40; Romans 16:3-5; Colossians 4:15 makes clear some Christians (including John Mark -- the first reference) still owned property and their own homes, allowing them to be used upon occasion as meeting places for the church.

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #4
        Oh, come on - THIS again?
        The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
          Oh, come on - THIS again?
          Every year it gets dug up.

          I'm always still in trouble again

          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Starlight View Post
            Yes.
            Indeed....... Yes.
            The words and actions of Baptist and Jesus both were devoted to the elimination of extreme poverty, and the end of greedy corrupted leadership.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by eider View Post

              Indeed....... Yes.
              The words and actions of Baptist and Jesus both were devoted to the elimination of extreme poverty, and the end of greedy corrupted leadership.
              They taught charity, not socialism.

              giphy (1).gif

              I'm always still in trouble again

              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
              "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                No. This gets beaten into a fine pink mist every year as Christmas approaches.
                This subject is for any season.

                Jesus definitely instructed His followers to take care of the poor,
                Good! It would have been nice to see some verses, but OK.

                ...... but charity is not communism. Early Christians were a group of people helping each other out, a family not a government. And nobody was forced to give anything. They shared it.
                It was how they took care of themselves and each other -- a very small group that in effect was an extended family. Nowhere is it even suggested that this was supposed to be a blueprint for how a nation or government should do things. In fact, in I Timothy 5:8, where we read
                But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

                makes it clear that it is an individual responsibility and not something to be sloughed off onto others to do it for you. The simple fact of the matter is that Jesus instructed His followers to take care of the poor. He never said anything about getting the government to force others to do so -- which is what socialism does.
                Moreover, in II Thessalonians 3:10 Paul tells us that any assistance that we give out needs to be paired with responsibility
                For even when we were with you, we would give you this command: If anyone is not willing to work, let him not eat.

                Those who slack off, refuse to work, and expect a handout should get nothing. They should be refused aid. That contradicts the whole "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need" mantra of the left.
                Now I know you prefer to ignore Paul, so let's look at exactly what Jesus taught.
                So the above stuff is not to do with what the Baptist or Jesus said or did.

                In His parable of the talents (Matthew 25:14-30
                Yes! A perfect example of what Jesus said. Let's shunt straight to the point....
                Matthew {25:25} And I was afraid, and went and hid thy talent in the earth:
                ......those digital detectives that find out about the fat wealthy people who stuff their money where it cannot be found. Indeed. We know what Jesus would do about them when so many are in so much need.

                Often the parable concerning the Good Samaritan
                Excellent! Here we go!
                Luke:- . {10:31} And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. {10:32} And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked [on him,] and passed by on the other side. {10:33} But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion [on him, ]{10:34} And went to [him,] and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.

                What a brilliant parable! The Upper class wealthy of that time were the Levites and of that class the Priests! Look how Jesus showed them up for what they were back then, and yet a foreigner was the one who supported the badly injured disabled man. Very good. It's interesting how some people do not see those first verses at all.

                Again, Jesus taught that it is a personal responsibility to care for those in need. Please note that Jesus never told anyone that instead of helping others in need themselves they should get the Pharisees, scribes or even Roman officials to do it for you. It is your responsibility.
                And let's be blunt, Socialism is not about sharing but rather seizing someone's property by force or threat of force (if you don't voluntarily hand it over) and giving it away including to those who do nothing but hold out their hand and then demand more. And keep in mind that the Bible does not condone in any way shape or form someone demanding money from others. Instead it explicitly teaches that we should not covet what others have (Exodus 20:17; cf. Deuteronomy 5:21)
                You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's

                Socialism teaches that we should look at what other people have, crave it and then decide on what should be taken away from them so that we can have it.
                Finally, "common ownership" didn't mean everything was shared. As Acts 12:12; 16:40; Romans 16:3-5; Colossians 4:15 makes clear some Christians (including John Mark -- the first reference) still owned property and their own homes, allowing them to be used upon occasion as meeting places for the church.
                Nothing in the above mentions any verses that show what Baprist or Jesus said or did. But the mention of Old Testament Law is interesting because although Jesus redacted laws about food and drink and sacrifice and ceremony he showed by his actions that he supported the poor laws strongly. More about this in later posts.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Cow Poke View Post
                  Oh, come on - THIS again?
                  It's about what the Baptist and Jesus said and did.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                    They taught charity, not socialism.

                    The Baptist and Jesus? Please include some verses to support your point. If you have any.
                    Thank you.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                      Every year it gets dug up.
                      Any time is a good time.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by eider View Post

                        It's about what the Baptist and Jesus said and did.
                        Exactly what did the Baptist teach on this

                        I'm always still in trouble again

                        "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                        "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                        "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by eider View Post

                          The Baptist and Jesus? Please include some verses to support your point. If you have any.
                          Thank you.
                          Go back to post #3. I provided two of Christ's parables that are relevant and reveal anything but a socialist bend.

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                            Exactly what did the Baptist teach on this
                            You can read about what the Baptist said and did in the gospels. But I will be focussing upon what verses there are on this thread.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                              Go back to post #3. I provided two of Christ's parables that are relevant and reveal anything but a socialist bend.
                              Are you referring to the verses that I featured in post 8?
                              It's so easy to show verses ...... so please, just show them again if I missed any.

                              Comment

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