What would it take for the atheist to believe in God?

[rogue06]

I grew up in a fairly mainstream protestant Christian tradition that allowed it was just possible that some Catholics were saved. Catholics. Ya know, the folks who sorted through the reams of Baby Jesus Gospel fairy tales and assorted frauds before deciding which handful of letters asserting themselves as "from Paul" were close enough to maybe written by him to be useful for instruction.

Sorry I didn't bother reading beyond that.

[rogue06]

Maybe so, but there won't be any Christian evolutionists getting past St. Peters Gate.

Do you think that accepting or not accepting a scientific theory is a salvific issue? Something that your very salvation rests on?

[rogue06]

You asked, you got an answer. Of course that answer would be an "opinion"

She asks questions that result in subjective response and then disdainfully sniffs that is just an opinion.

Trolling or addled? Why does it have to be just one?

[Juvenal]

I'll see your regeneration and raise you a resurrection.

Show me the body.

[rogue06]

Speaking for no other atheist on the planet but myself, and to borrow from St. Christopher (Hithchens); assertions require evidence, extraordinary assertions require extraordinary evidence. And some of the claims made by christians about their preferred deity, are pretty extraordinary. So, what would it take? A miracle, a true to god, real life, defies all known laws of science, miracle. Carried out live, under laboratory controlled conditions and all broadcast, worldwide, on prime time TV

And not just "curing" some dumb schmuck of his backache, which might pass muster for average sucker who visits Lourdes hoping for an improvement in their general well being. Something more profound. How about, the full regeneration of an amputated limb. Surely not beyond the wit and capabilities of a deity as defined by christians.

There, sorry to be all reductionist, but that's what it will take. At least it would, for me, be a positive first step in the right direction.

I'll see your regeneration and raise you a resurrection.

[Juvenal]

That's just your opinion.

Let's go, Jesus.

[rogue06]

And as such remains subjective. It also fails to address the question as to which is the "right direction" for religious belief.

H_A-dude.gif

Unless you ask a question about math, something that can only be answered with a "yes" or "no" or something along those lines you are going to get subjective answers to a question when asked. An opinion. Therefore it is not necessary to then respond with "that is your opinion" when you get an answer.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

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I wonder if everyone she asks a question of gets a sneering "That's just your opinion" in response.

[intended sarcasm] Scintillating wit on full display.

[Juvenal]

That would all be the second step or challenge after getting them to realize that God exists -- pointing them in the right direction.

I grew up in a fairly mainstream protestant Christian tradition that allowed it was just possible that some Catholics were saved. Catholics. Ya know, the folks who sorted through the reams of Baby Jesus Gospel fairy tales and assorted frauds before deciding which handful of letters asserting themselves as "from Paul" were close enough to maybe written by him to be useful for instruction.

And which y'all then decided were definitely written by your God.

So good luck on that.

But if you want to pull back the curtain and acknowledge you're looking to convince folks the Biblical Jesus worshipped most typically by evangelicals is the one, true heavenly king, I've long since noted the most clear, unambiguous argument has been staring at you out of your scriptures all along. That's what would work for me.

But until then, I'll keep noting that there's nothing your Jesus is reportedly able to do that the idea of your Jesus hasn't been doing just as well for the last couple millennia.

[rogue06]

Some people seem to forget that fact.

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Most folks understand it when they ae expressing an opinion.

[rogue06]

Well of course it is an opinion. That is glaringly obvious.

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I wonder if everyone she asks a question of gets a sneering "That's just your opinion" in response.

[rogue06]

That is your opinion premised on your religion and your religious beliefs. Followers of other religions would offer their opinions premised on their religious beliefs.

However, that still leaves unanswered the question "which direction is the right direction?"

Speaking of "that is your opinion"

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You got the answer but didn't like it.

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

In God's opinion.

Can an omniscient and omnipotent Creator Being hold an "opinion"?

Opinion: a belief or judgment that rests on grounds insufficient to produce complete certainty.

[my emphasis]

[Hypatia_Alexandria]

Yes, and many have major changes in their lives to the good.

Why is it that so often the Five Ds lead to religious conversion?

What does the religious experience represent or [more likely] replace?

[Cow Poke]

I am very glad to read that. However, it seems apparent that there are those that do find the Lord after some sort of addiction and/or other psychological issue [including jail time].

Yes, and many have major changes in their lives to the good.