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Gary & Rhinestone's Thread on Burial and Resurrection of Christ

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  • Dear Readers: You do not need to be a scholar to disbelieve resurrection claims.

    Two thousand years ago, hundreds of millions of people on earth believed in a god named Zeus who lived on top of Mount Olympus in Greece who performed many fantastical supernatural deeds. The existence of Zeus and the historicity of his alleged deeds have never been disproven.

    Approximately 1300 years ago, a man named Mohammad claimed to have received a visit from a supernatural being who gave him the true word of the creator of the universe and who enabled him to fly on a winged horse into the heavens. Hundreds of millions of people today believe in the historicity of these claims. These claims have never been disproven.

    Approximately 200 years ago, a man named Joseph Smith claimed to have received golden plates from a supernatural being containing the true, updated, word of the creator of the universe. Millions of people today believe that this claim is historical fact. This claim has never been disproven.

    Since these claims have never been disproven, should we believe them? Should we believe these fantastical, extra-ordinary claims that defy the established laws of nature? The proponents of the above claims would say that the possible/probable existence of a Creator greatly increases the probability of these claims being true. But is that really correct? Doesn't the evidence seem to suggest that if a Creator exists, he/she/they/it have chosen to operate, at least within our universe, within the natural laws? How often have experts confirmed that established natural laws have been violated?

    I would therefore suggest that the possible existence of a Creator can in no way be assumed to increase the probability of un-natural events occurring within our universe. We have no confirmed evidence to suggest that a Creator routinely or even sporadically violates the laws of nature. We have no evidence to believe that gods live on Greek mountains; that celestial beings enable humans to ride on winged horses; or that persons in upstate New York receive plates of gold from angels.

    So when another large group of people living today tells you their fantastical, extra-ordinary claim that two thousand years ago a three-day-dead corpse was suddenly reanimated back to life by an ancient middle-eastern deity, broke out of his sealed tomb, ate a fish lunch with his former fishing buddies, and then levitated into the clouds, I suggest that we consider this claim to be just as probable as the three claims above.

    And unlike what you have been told, dear friend, you do NOT need to be a scholar to disbelieve all four of these supernatural claims. Why? Answer: Because the onus of proof is NOT on you, the skeptic. In western, educated society the onus is always on the person making the fantastical, extra-ordinary claim, not on those who doubt it.

    Therefore, the onus is on the proponents of these four supernatural tales to prove their veracity, and so far, the evidence presented by these groups of believers is dismal to pathetic. That is why no public university history textbook in the western world lists any of these four claims as even "probable" historical events.

    You don't need to be a scholar to disbelieve supernatural religious tales of gods living on mountains, prophets flying in the air on winged horses, upstate New Yorkers receiving heavenly messages in cow pastures, or reanimated dead guys flying off into outer space. Don't let the proponents of these tall tales convince you otherwise.
    Last edited by Gary; 07-08-2016, 11:56 AM.

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    • Since the claims have never been disproven, why should we NOT believe them?
      Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

      Comment


      • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
        Since the claims have never been disproven, why should we NOT believe them?
        exactly...

        Comment


        • barrett-receives-plates.jpg

          Comment


          • Another reason to doubt the burial account is that Mark has Joseph "buy linen" on the Passover (or Sabbath depending on how you interpret the text) - Mk. 15:42-46, which was illegal according to Jewish law.

            Leviticus 23:6-7
            "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it."

            Nehemiah 10:31
            "When the neighboring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath, we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day. Every seventh year we will forgo working the land and will cancel all debts."

            https://books.google.com/books?id=cS...page&q&f=false

            If no one was allowed to work, how did Joseph buy the linen? Are we supposed to believe a "respected member of the council" just goes out and violates Jewish law in full public view?
            Last edited by RhinestoneCowboy; 07-08-2016, 03:06 PM.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
              Since the claims have never been disproven, why should we NOT believe them?
              Do you believe everything you're told until you prove it false?

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Doug Shaver View Post
                Do you believe everything you're told until you prove it false?
                I was beginning to think I was the only sane person on this thread.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by Gary View Post
                  I was beginning to think I was the only sane person on this thread.
                  Anyone with a wig like that can hardly be considered sane.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View Post
                    Another reason to doubt the burial account is that Mark has Joseph "buy linen" on the Passover (or Sabbath depending on how you interpret the text) - Mk. 15:42-46, which was illegal according to Jewish law.

                    Leviticus 23:6-7
                    "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it."

                    Nehemiah 10:31
                    "When the neighboring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath, we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day. Every seventh year we will forgo working the land and will cancel all debts."

                    https://books.google.com/books?id=cS...page&q&f=false

                    If no one was allowed to work, how did Joseph buy the linen? Are we supposed to believe a "respected member of the council" just goes out and violates Jewish law in full public view?
                    Source: Mark 15:42

                    Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath

                    © Copyright Original Source



                    Oops.
                    Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                    sigpic
                    I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View Post
                      Another reason to doubt the burial account is that Mark has Joseph "buy linen" on the Passover (or Sabbath depending on how you interpret the text) - Mk. 15:42-46, which was illegal according to Jewish law.

                      Leviticus 23:6-7
                      "And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the Feast of Unleavened Bread to the Lord; seven days you must eat unleavened bread. On the first day you shall have a holy convocation; you shall do no customary work on it."

                      Nehemiah 10:31
                      "When the neighboring peoples bring merchandise or grain to sell on the Sabbath, we will not buy from them on the Sabbath or on any holy day. Every seventh year we will forgo working the land and will cancel all debts."

                      https://books.google.com/books?id=cS...page&q&f=false

                      If no one was allowed to work, how did Joseph buy the linen? Are we supposed to believe a "respected member of the council" just goes out and violates Jewish law in full public view?
                      Your source isn't helping you. Read the concluding section.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Gary View Post

                        So when another large group of people living today tells you their fantastical, extra-ordinary claim that two thousand years ago a three-day-dead corpse was suddenly reanimated back to life by an ancient middle-eastern deity, broke out of his sealed tomb, ate a fish lunch with his former fishing buddies, and then levitated into the clouds, I suggest that we consider this claim to be just as probable as the three claims above.
                        Your "Dear Reader" posts are always a hoot, Gary.
                        Veritas vos Liberabit<>< Learn Greek <>< Look here for an Orthodox Church in America<><Ancient Faith Radio
                        sigpic
                        I recommend you do not try too hard and ...research as little as possible. Such weighty things give me a headache. - Shunyadragon, Baha'i apologist

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by psstein View Post
                          Your source isn't helping you. Read the concluding section.
                          My source is helping me. Obviously, Mark was not familiar with Jewish customs or did not care enough to present them accurately. He doesn't seem to even understand that Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. The author needed to get Jesus off the cross before the Sabbath so he invents this historically improbable way of doing so.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by RhinestoneCowboy View Post
                            My source is helping me. Obviously, Mark was not familiar with Jewish customs or did not care enough to present them accurately. He doesn't seem to even understand that Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. The author needed to get Jesus off the cross before the Sabbath so he invents this historically improbable way of doing so.
                            No it isn't. Go back and read it again.
                            Watch your links! http://www.theologyweb.com/campus/fa...corumetiquette

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by One Bad Pig View Post
                              Source: Mark 15:42

                              Now when evening had come, because it was the Preparation Day, that is, the day before the Sabbath

                              © Copyright Original Source



                              Oops.
                              And the day before the Sabbath was Passover. Jewish "days" went from evening to evening. Didn't your pastor teach you that? The Passover feast is eaten on the 15th of Nisan which Mark depicts being eaten on Thursday night. The 15th of Nisan lasts from Thursday evening to Friday evening. Jesus was crucified during the day on Friday. Mk. 15:42 says "as evening came" which indicates it's either still Passover Friday or the beginning of the Sabbath. Either way Joseph is still depicted as violating Jewish law.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by DesertBerean View Post
                                No it isn't. Go back and read it again.
                                How about you explain it in your own words? My source actually lists numerous violations including Numbers 19:16 and Deuteronomy 21:23.

                                Comment

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