How to attack Christianity

[Sparko]

Exactly.
I'd word it more like this: "We come to trust in his nature as revealed through Jesus Christ".
If I wanted to destroy Sparko I would hammer on this point, and yet, even as I reveal the Christian Theology's greatest weakness no atheist will run with it.

My theory is that atheists are permitted their delusions (1) because it protects believers from assaults on our most vulnerable front.
I believe this is backed up by scripture in Corinthians 13 when love is identified as the force that really moves mountains.
It is incomprehensible that love is actually the nuclear force of all reality so the tinkling of cymbals will continue.

Thank God for that.



NOTES
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1: The delusion? The fantasy that anyone actually gives a flying donut about the endless sophistry that passes as intelligent debate.

I don't know... Atheists are pretty quick to point out how hypocritical Christians are. And we are. We rail against sin, while sinning ourselves. We just have to keep in mind that we are forgiven even though we are hypocrites. Which to an atheist makes no sense at all.

[Meh Gerbil]

I don't know... Atheists are pretty quick to point out how hypocritical Christians are. And we are. We rail against sin, while sinning ourselves. We just have to keep in mind that we are forgiven even though we are hypocrites. Which to an atheist makes no sense at all.

Everyone is a hypocrite on some level.
I say that we use atheist's observations to better ourselves.
Our critics can see our blind spots - seems like valuable information to me.

[Sparko]

Everyone is a hypocrite on some level.
I say that we use atheist's observations to better ourselves.
Our critics can see our blind spots - seems like valuable information to me.

True. There is no excuse for some of the things we Christians do. Especially some who call themselves leaders. But I think it is the job of the Church to keep us in check and point out our flaws. Hopefully they will do it with compassion instead of hate (yeah, right)

[whag]

Once you accept the idea of a God the miraculous claims of Scripture are really the most reasonable part of the proposition.
An all powerful God reigning down hellfire (floods/famine/etc) is completely understandable.
Loving us seems like the most unbelievable response.

Not really. In anthropomorphic terms, parents forgive their children for horrible things, sometimes even sustained mistreatment of the parents themselves. The unbelievable part is the extremity of the punishment.

If I was an attacker of Christianity, I'd concentrate on the use of natural events as punishment tools, since natural events have always occurred and are indistinguishable from calamities designed to punish. Moreover, given that human beings originate from the wild and still possess wild characteristics that we don't need (that lead to tribal wars, for example), the abundance of God's empathy expressed in extreme love isn't that inconceivable. We're ignorant and saddled with the heaviest burden of all the animals.

[Meh Gerbil]

Not really. In anthropomorphic terms, parents forgive their children for horrible things, sometimes even sustained mistreatment of the parents themselves. The unbelievable part is the extremity of the punishment.

If I was an attacker of Christianity, I'd concentrate on the use of natural events as punishment tools, since natural events have always occurred and are indistinguishable from calamities designed to punish. Moreover, given that human beings originate from the wild and still possess wild characteristics that we don't need (that lead to tribal wars, for example), the abundance of God's empathy expressed in extreme love isn't that inconceivable. We're ignorant and saddled with the heaviest burden of all the animals.

If God were to appear to you right now what response would you find most reasonable:

1: "Whag, I love you and I want you to know that the whole sin thing has been handled - I'm not even disappointed in you. Let's walk together so that I can show you more about the ways of love."

2: "Whag, I've put a great deal of time and effort into creating you and the world and all this stuff and you seem to be making a few mistakes here and there. Look, buddy, I love you but I need you to work a bit harder to get your thing together. This is a 50/50 deal, bro, so break a sweat."

[Sparko]

If God were to appear to you right now what response would you find most reasonable:

1: "Whag, I love you and I want you to know that the whole sin thing has been handled - I'm not even disappointed in you. Let's walk together so that I can show you more about the ways of love."

2: "Whag, I've put a great deal of time and effort into creating you and the world and all this stuff and you seem to be making a few mistakes here and there. Look, buddy, I love you but I need you to work a bit harder to get your thing together. This is a 50/50 deal, bro, so break a sweat."

#2 is kind of the muslim idea of God. "Look here Whag, I got this feather here and every time you sin, your soul gets heavier. As of right now it would take about a zillion feathers to outweigh your soul so you need to go on a sin diet"

[Meh Gerbil]

#2 is kind of the muslim idea of God. "Look here Whag, I got this feather here and every time you sin, your soul gets heavier. As of right now it would take about a zillion feathers to outweigh your soul so you need to go on a sin diet"

Unfortunately, it is also the vast majority of Christian's functional view of God.
If you doubt this wait until something bad happens.
The first thing we're trained to think is "How did I fail?", or "Why is God allowing this?"

[Carrikature]

Unfortunately, it is also the vast majority of Christian's functional view of God.
If you doubt this wait until something bad happens.
The first thing we're trained to think is "How did I fail?", or "Why is God allowing this?"

Or the corollary: "Good things are happening so I'm a good Christian".

[Carrikature]

I don't know... Atheists are pretty quick to point out how hypocritical Christians are. And we are. We rail against sin, while sinning ourselves. We just have to keep in mind that we are forgiven even though we are hypocrites. Which to an atheist makes no sense at all.

Forgiveness makes sense. There's a lot of ways to explain it, but I never had a problem with that. What doesn't make sense to me is using forgiveness as a crutch. It's not a license to misbehave, which is how I've seen it used (not by all).

[Sparko]

Forgiveness makes sense. There's a lot of ways to explain it, but I never had a problem with that. What doesn't make sense to me is using forgiveness as a crutch. It's not a license to misbehave, which is how I've seen it used (not by all).

[whag]

If God were to appear to you right now what response would you find most reasonable:

1: "Whag, I love you and I want you to know that the whole sin thing has been handled - I'm not even disappointed in you. Let's walk together so that I can show you more about the ways of love."

2: "Whag, I've put a great deal of time and effort into creating you and the world and all this stuff and you seem to be making a few mistakes here and there. Look, buddy, I love you but I need you to work a bit harder to get your thing together. This is a 50/50 deal, bro, so break a sweat."

Your post meant to school Christianity's attackers about a better way to refute the Christian faith. I responded by saying it's not, then explained why. I only meant to point out that you haven't uncovered some huge oversight on the part of Christianity's malevolent skeptics. Emphasizing the unbelievability of extreme divine love wouldn't be useful in an attack, especially given what we know about parental psychology. Parents forgive big things and punish harshly. The good ones don't torment their children. This is entirely normal for mammals, especially the human ones.

Your post is interesting but framed more like clickbait.

[whag]

#2 is kind of the muslim idea of God. "Look here Whag, I got this feather here and every time you sin, your soul gets heavier. As of right now it would take about a zillion feathers to outweigh your soul so you need to go on a sin diet"

I wouldn't defend Islam's model, but if a vast majority of Christians subscribe to the same functional model, perhaps a deeper dysfunction within Christianity's transference model needs to be addressed.

[Sparko]

I wouldn't defend Islam's model, but if a vast majority of Christians subscribe to the same functional model, perhaps a deeper dysfunction within Christianity's transference model needs to be addressed.

that's what gerbil is saying.

[One Bad Pig]

Very few of those relationships are unconditional love.

Sure.

I could come up with at least 1/2 dozen reasons why people have children wherein love has nothing to do with it.

Sure. Many children don't get love from their parents.

Perhaps, although I could come up with dozens of reasons to make something wherein love has nothing to do with it.
Add in sin and love becomes ridiculous - his creative power makes us disposable.

True.

Most of what passes for love in the world is quite conditional.
I hope the majority of love in your life is not that.

I'm probably lucky in that regard.

You may be quite a bit more along your path than me; however, I suspect you embrace legalism to a degree that you'd find surprising.
I'm constantly digging the stuff up in my own life, the roots only getting thicker and heavier the further I dig.

Well, I may have started farther back. I was raised in a church which labeled itself "evangelical fundamental." The Eastern church has this concept of "economy" where rules tend to have exceptions based on circumstance, which has undoubtedly shaped my recent outlook. Legalism is easy.

[Meh Gerbil]

Well, I may have started farther back. I was raised in a church which labeled itself "evangelical fundamental." The Eastern church has this concept of "economy" where rules tend to have exceptions based on circumstance, which has undoubtedly shaped my recent outlook. Legalism is easy.

Excellent.
I wish you continued joy in your journey.