Question for church-goin Christians...

[One Bad Pig]

The meal was a CENTRAL part of a Jewish person's day, when everyone could gather around the table and give thanks to God. It was extremely significant, but a daily event. The Eucharist was a reflection of this Jewish practice as was done by Jesus and the Disciples. Very little in the Last Supper was original.

I am aware that the liturgy was centered around the breaking of bread and passing of the cup, but again, these were not things that Jesus invented/instituted at the Last Supper, and they had a very specific meaning to Him. And part of that significance to Him was that it was done at every meal where the family gathered.

The Last Supper was not a typical every-day meal; it was a Passover seder, presided over by the head of the household. Jesus took two specific elements of the seder (the breaking of the matzoh and the cup of redemption - the 3rd cup of wine during the seder and the first after the meal proper) and infused them with new meaning.

It was not intended to be withheld by the clergy in favor of a specific day or distinct event.

The clergy are the heads of the household of the family of God. Like at the seder, they preside. And that it typically occurs on Sunday does not mean it can't be done any other time; Sunday is most convenient, however, and commemorates the day of Resurrection.

[Jedidiah]

Okay, let's say I've been browbeaten into going to church, which is the correct day?

Sunday, Saturday... or Friday sundown to Saturday sundown, or until the three stars are visible?

Is showing up for Christmas and Easter "good enough" or, would I need to supplement with a Wednesday night meeting, featuring a puppet interpretation of the Left Behind series?

I ask again:

Why would any real Christian not want to get together to worship with other believers? Sorry, it boggles my mind, Steven. Where are you coming from?

[footwasher]

Fiddlesticks.

1. a Christian MUST go to Church.

Hebrews 10:25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day

2. Church is where he is edified:


1 Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

2 Corinthians 10:5We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ

[Steven]

If you're only going against your will, it's better to stay home and forget about this whole following Jesus thing.

In my experience, the people who stridently advocate a specific day are in the extreme minority. Almost everyone else typically meets on Sunday, in commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ. If you're looking to meet with other believers, that's probably the best day. You're free to gather any day of the week you desire, but it helps to coordinate with others.

You shouldn't be considering this from a legalistic perspective. If you loved someone, would being with them twice a year satisfy you?

So, am I understanding you rightly: all I need to do--to prove I love Christ--is to go to church?

If so, then what church do I go to? There is a veritable plethora to chose from. Are the Catholics right, or are the Protestants? If the latter, is it the Pentecostals or the Baptists, evangelicals, Nazarene, Calvary chapels, Lutherans, or just-come-as-you-are folks? They can't all be right. There is only one body of Christ.

Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? 1 Cor. 1:13

[Steven]

I ask again: Why would any real Christian not want to get together to worship with other believers? Sorry, it boggles my mind, Steven. Where are you coming from?

Please define the term "real christian." The pharisees were "real", but were they right?

Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition. Mark 7:7-9

[pancreasman]

Not my section so I apologise and will say this as an observer with no dog in the fight. Mods, please feel free to delete if necessary:

Steven, the other Christians have effectively and Biblically shown you that assembling with other Christians OUGHT to be desired and practiced by every Christian. Your responses thus far have seemed to be a deliberate misunderstanding of their arguments and intent. If you don't want to meet with other Christians, then you shouldn't. But don't try to argue that 'lone ranger' Christianity is Biblical. It simply isn't.

[Steven]

Actually, the event that most resembles the New Testament church would be the midweek Bible study.

The event which seems to be closest to the description would be the midweek Bible study.

Footwasher - Interesting point. I think the weekly bible study--particularly the men--is close to what Hebrews 10:25 is referring to, where the men (Hebrews 10:19) gather to exhort one another, provoke unto love and good works and all the more as you see the day approaching.

Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, (Hebrews 10:19)
And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. Hebrews 10: 24-25

Also, good job not shrinking back from pointing out that the Bible says women should be silent in church. In my experience, most men are feminized in today's Christendom.

As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths. Isaiah 3:12

[Steven]

Not my section so I apologise and will say this as an observer with no dog in the fight. Mods, please feel free to delete if necessary:

Steven, the other Christians have effectively and Biblically shown you that assembling with other Christians OUGHT to be desired and practiced by every Christian. Your responses thus far have seemed to be a deliberate misunderstanding of their arguments and intent. If you don't want to meet with other Christians, then you shouldn't. But don't try to argue that 'lone ranger' Christianity is Biblical. It simply isn't.

And your Scriptural evidence for this point is...

[Steven]

Fiddlesticks.

1. a Christian MUST go to Church.

Hebrews 10:25Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day

2. Church is where he is edified:


1 Corinthians 3:10According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. 11For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, 13each man’s work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man’s work. 14If any man’s work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. 15If any man’s work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

Jeremiah 23:29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?

2 Corinthians 10:5We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ

Now, that sounds like a congregation of the ekklesia. Dare I say it, I may even "go" to meet with such.

[pancreasman]

And your Scriptural evidence for this point is...

I'll refrain from posting anymore since I'm really not permitted in this area, but Christians have done a good job providing scriptural evidence. Your responses have been of the 'yes, but ...' variety. It seems you are unwilling to accept the scriptural position, but what do I know?

[Steven]

It's a goofy premise -- WHO is claiming that one must "go to church", and what does that entail? As far as I can see, NONE of us are putting emphasis on "going to church" - that's your phrase. One of our posters has Church in their home. Some of us worship (or have worshiped) in house Churches.

I think your biggest problem is attitude and motive.

This reminds me of the question "Can I be a Christian without going to Church", and I always respond with "Sure, can I be married and not live with my wife?" Of course I can, but why would I want to?

We "go to Church" (whatever that entails) because we love the Lord and want to be around His people.

Cow Poke, perhaps I should explain that I am not against the ekklesia assembling together. I have done so for over 25 years. My point is that just because I "go" to a building with church on it does not give me extra spiritual phylacteries in the Kingdom of God, or in any way "prove" that I am a Christian. It is not the Biblical litmus test of belief. In fact there are cases where folks attend a christian church regularly, do all the forms & traditions unwaveringly, yet they do not know Christ. How is that even possible?

One further example: why is Jesus standing outside the church at Laodicea, knocking on the door?

[One Bad Pig]

So, am I understanding you rightly: all I need to do--to prove I love Christ--is to go to church?

No, you are not understanding me rightly. Your actions should be motivated by love, not some desire to 'prove' something.

If so, then what church do I go to? There is a veritable plethora to chose from. Are the Catholics right, or are the Protestants? If the latter, is it the Pentecostals or the Baptists, evangelicals, Nazarene, Calvary chapels, Lutherans, or just-come-as-you-are folks? They can't all be right. There is only one body of Christ.

I agree that the church is in a deplorable state, divided as it is. Not going at all because of that is taking the lazy way out, however. The gospel message is by and large the same in every one of the groups you've mentioned. I am a member of the Orthodox Church because that is where I believe the fullness of the faith resides. However, I do not reject my Protestant brethren as reprobates. If you don't know which one to choose, check out all the different churches in your area and pick the one that challenges you to grow the most.

[Steven]

No, you are not understanding me rightly. Your actions should be motivated by love, not some desire to 'prove' something.

I agree that the church is in a deplorable state, divided as it is. Not going at all because of that is taking the lazy way out, however. The gospel message is by and large the same in every one of the groups you've mentioned. I am a member of the Orthodox Church because that is where I believe the fullness of the faith resides. However, I do not reject my Protestant brethren as reprobates. If you don't know which one to choose, check out all the different churches in your area and pick the one that challenges you to grow the most.

Going? Going where? You're either part of the Body of Christ or you are not. This is the problem I am having; because I omitted to use the correct spiritual buzz phrases (which are decidedly un-Biblical) you just assumed that I don't fellowship on a regular basis... which I never said.

[Steven]

If you don't know which one to choose, check out all the different churches in your area and pick the one that challenges you to grow the most.

Challenges me the most? I thought it was the Holy Spirit, also our conscience bearing witness of God.

I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Ghost, Romans 9:1

[One Bad Pig]

Going? Going where? You're either part of the Body of Christ or you are not. This is the problem I am having; because I omitted to use the correct spiritual buzz phrases (which are decidedly un-Biblical) you just assumed that I don't fellowship on a regular basis... which I never said.

Actually, I didn't assume that (and I couldn't care less about spiritual buzz phrases). You're just determined to take everything personally.

Challenges me the most? I thought it was the Holy Spirit, also our conscience bearing witness of God.

Those are not incompatible.