Question for church-goin Christians...

[Christianbookworm]

Good, you're actually dealing with the issue.

Jesus didn't have any advantage in dealing with Satan the pull from the fleshly drives. That's what makes his sacrifice a valid sacrifice.


18For since he himself suffered when he was tempted, he is able to help those who are tempted.

Besides, IDK being Wisdom Incarnate!!!

[Cow Poke]

Nope - begging the ban hammer.

My apologies, footwasher - I keep getting you mixed up with firstfloor, our incredibly annoying resident anti-Christian atheist. You guys seem to have the same personality.

[One Bad Pig]

How can you hear the devil's voice if he has been killed? Obviously, something else is being conveyed in the text.

I agree that the meaning of the text is not straightforward.

The only other meaning indicated is that Jesus has put to death the deeds of his body, the desires of his flesh, the temptations of his body, not a person, the devil. It's obvious that the text uses flowery speech to describe what happened to the personification of temptation.

That meaning is in no wise required. The power of satan has been destroyed.

You're right, so refrigeration makes possible eating of lightly cooked, even raw food. So why do people continue to over cook food like it was not refrigerated, like in times past without refrigeration and destroy valuable life sustaining nutrients? Because they don't want to improve their understanding. They feel doing so will throw out the understanding that worked well. They don't know that it really didn't work well.

Perhaps they just prefer the taste of well-cooked food.

In my analogy, why are believers not always reforming, improving their understanding, as advised by the reformers?

"Always reforming" is a fallacy of the reformation. Seeking to improve one's understanding is a good thing, but we shouldn't be constantly starting from scratch; that's how we get to all these widely divergent ideas in Protestantism today.

[footwasher]

My apologies, footwasher - I keep getting you mixed up with firstfloor, our incredibly annoying resident anti-Christian atheist. You guys seem to have the same personality.

I feel sad you aren't benefitting from the discussion. No one is forcing you to read my posts. Those who find benefit will continue to read and check against Scripture, and those who don't find benefit will avoid the posts. It's that simple.

I agree that the meaning of the text is not straightforward.

Thank you.

That meaning is in no wise required. The power of satan has been destroyed.

Even that isn't an option. If satan's power is destroyed, why are we still tempted?

If satan's power is destroyed, why are believers still sinning and experiencing judgment?

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Perhaps they just prefer the taste of well-cooked food.

Even though it has lost life preserving nutrients? That's so insightful. People love doctrine that sounds good, even though it has lost its life giving elements! Can I use that in my blog? Thank you in advance.

"Always reforming" is a fallacy of the reformation. Seeking to improve one's understanding is a good thing, but we shouldn't be constantly starting from scratch; that's how we get to all these widely divergent ideas in Protestantism today.

Then what's the point of this forum?

[Cow Poke]

I feel sad you aren't benefitting from the discussion. No one is forcing you to read my posts.

You sure have a lot of sadness in your life.

I'm just wondering - do you ever start any threads or join in any conversations where you're encouraging, uplifting, or otherwise "getting along" with other Christians? (You know, like it talks about a whole lot in the New Testament)

[footwasher]

http://www.google.co.in/url?q=http:/...mJkxkvgDsZCNDQ

You sure have a lot of sadness in your life.

I'm just wondering - do you ever start any threads or join in any conversations where you're encouraging, uplifting, or otherwise "getting along" with other Christians? (You know, like it talks about a whole lot in the New Testament)

Hilarious! Where have we heard those words before, "Why can't we just get along?"

[One Bad Pig]

Even that isn't an option. If satan's power is destroyed, why are we still tempted?

If satan's power is destroyed, why are believers still sinning and experiencing judgment?

Ephesians 5:3
But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.

1 Timothy 6:10
For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.

Because we're still living in a creation impacted by sin.

Even though it has lost life preserving nutrients? That's so insightful.

That's why people eat canned vegetables - they like the taste, and they can be stored indefinitely. Most people also don't realize how much nutrition is destroyed in the canning process.

People love doctrine that sounds good, even though it has lost its life giving elements! Can I use that in my blog? Thank you in advance.

Sure.

Then what's the point of this forum?

[footwasher]

Because we're still living in a creation impacted by sin.

So satan's power has not been destroyed?

That's why people eat canned vegetables - they like the taste, and they can be stored indefinitely. Most people also don't realize how much nutrition is destroyed in the canning process.

So you recommend that people who love doctrine that sounds good, even though it has lost its life giving elements should be left alone?

Sure.

Thank you.

I mean how is growth promoted?

TWeb Mission statement

Our goal is to encourage discussion, promote growth from the knowledge shared amongst participants and have free and open debate in the marketplace of ideas

[One Bad Pig]

So satan's power has not been destroyed?

No. Satan is not our sin nature.

So you recommend that people who love doctrine that sounds good, even though it has lost its life giving elements should be left alone?

No. Don't play stupid.

I mean how is growth promoted?

TWeb Mission statement

Our goal is to encourage discussion, promote growth from the knowledge shared amongst participants and have free and open debate in the marketplace of ideas

Discussion and growth are not synonymous with reformation.

[Cow Poke]

No. Don't play stupid.

I'm becoming convinced he's not playing.

[Cow Poke]

Hilarious! Where have we heard those words before, "Why can't we just get along?"

Jesus.

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

So, the question still stands - do you ever start any threads or join in any conversations where you're encouraging, uplifting, or otherwise "getting along" with other Christians? (You know, like it talks about a whole lot in the New Testament)

[Jedidiah]

Suppose I've experienced good food while serving overseas.

When I'm back stateside, I see that people eat in a way reflecting tradition. They won't eat raw food because traditionally, cooking sterilizes food. I see other cultures sterilizing food by refrigeration. So although we have refrigeration in our society, we still follow traditions that don't acknowledge it.

When I prepare food hygienically, food taken out of refrigeration, cleaned and cooked lightly, my friends and family hold back instinctively.

Why buck tradition? They say. Why fix something which ain't broke?

Because overcooking kills essential vitamins and minerals. Because cultures cooking right have the least infirmities and highest life expectancies.

Reformation is a continuous process.

Reformation can't happen without checks and balances, and constant checks and balances.

Which cannot happen if every exploration is blocked with an accusation of fomenting divisiveness.

Two points:

1-You did not in any way respond to what I posted.

2-Americans eat all sorts of different foods, raw, lightly cooked, and heavily cooked. Different foods get different preparations. Your entire post is irrelevant as far as I can see. It is relevant neither to what I posted, nor to the question of a legal requirement to attend church.

[footwasher]

No. Satan is not our sin nature.

Then what is the benefit to us from the destruction of satan's power on the cross?

No. Don't play stupid.

It may sound like a revelation, but that is the logical result of your position, your apparent support of stasis, inertia:

Food is life sustaining when it is cooked lightly.

Food may taste better well cooked, but loses life sustaining properties.

Reformation/correction should be avoided because its bad to keep changing mindsets even in the light of better research because it leads to confusion.

Discussion and growth are not synonymous with reformation.

In the real world, discussion and growth are the recognized means of reformation. Democracy may be a bad form of stimulating progress, improvement, REFORMATION, but it's the best form yet invented. Next to tyranny and dictatorship, I'll choose democracy anytime. So did Luther, to our great benefit.

[footwasher]

Aren't you confusing "joy" with "happiness" here? I am pleased with good food, but joy is with me all the time - even in the saddest moments.

Two points:

1-You did not in any way respond to what I posted.

I explained how a normal person can be happy and sad at the same time, using the example of great food that is enjoyed by us but rejected by others because of inertia.

2-Americans eat all sorts of different foods, raw, lightly cooked, and heavily cooked. Different foods get different preparations. Your entire post is irrelevant as far as I can see. It is relevant neither to what I posted, nor to the question of a legal requirement to attend church.

Common sense would indicate that people would change and avoid unhealthy food, unhealthy places. Inertia makes them not change. That's what saddens me.

[footwasher]

Jesus.

"By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

So, the question still stands - do you ever start any threads or join in any conversations where you're encouraging, uplifting, or otherwise "getting along" with other Christians? (You know, like it talks about a whole lot in the New Testament)

Two things:

1. Are you willing to discuss a specific text?

2. Are you willing to persevere and avoid walking away in a huff?