So, WHO is Joseph Prince, and what's he all about?

[Scrawly]

[KingsGambit]

Sad situation all around really and to come down like a thunderbolt on any of these people will generally be counterproductive.

I think it depends on whether you're talking about the false teachers themselves or just the people duped by them. If you're talking about the victims, I'd agree. But the NT authors pulled no punches in calling out false teachers.

[mossrose]

The false teachers are the modern day version of the Pharisees, and Jesus certainly pulled no punches when he dealt with them. They exploit the people whom you are describing in your post.

But the followers are not blameless either. They are like those who followed Jesus only for the healings and the free food. They were not true followers and fell away, and are to be pitied, as are the current day ones who are only there for the "healings and miracles".

And prayed for. And told the truth about those they are following.

[KingsGambit]

Actually, I'd like to somewhat amend what I said in post #17. Jude 1:22-23 says:

Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.

My understanding is that even though it says doubt, this is thought to refer more to people who have come under the influence of false teachers. So what I'm seeing here is that the way we handle the situation is on a case by case basis with how "harsh" we come down.

[Scrawly]

Yes, I basically agree. I just think it is necessary to point out that the people under the influence of these false teachers are by and large unbelievers themselves. They really need to be wisely led away from the nonsense peddled by the false teachers and shown the true gospel and exposed to genuine Christianity. The sad part is seemingly most of them are not looking for that.

As for the false teachers themselves, well, I don't think appealing to Scripture will be of much use in getting them to change their minds, because they too are not really looking for true religion.

So you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion.

[KingsGambit]

So you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion.

That clearly wasn't Jude's view, though. He thought that tangible action could be taken to reclaim people in that position.

[Scrawly]

I think it depends on whether you're talking about the false teachers themselves or just the people duped by them. If you're talking about the victims, I'd agree. But the NT authors pulled no punches in calling out false teachers.

Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.

[Scrawly]

That clearly wasn't Jude's view, though. He thought that tangible action could be taken to reclaim people in that position.

I think the false teachers during the primitive Christian church when sound doctrine was still in the process of being established was quite a bit different from our situation now. Anyone who would snub a commentary written by scholars on the Scripture's in exchange for Joel Osteen's books clearly is not someone that needs to be snatched away from thoroughgoing deception but someone who needs to be saved like any other unbeliever.

If someone can give me testimonies by people who's eyes were opened by the work of discernment ministries after once following Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn or whoever, I might change my mind.

[Bill the Cat]

Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.

TD Jakes has moved away from his modalistic heresy, so that's one

[mossrose]

Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.

Just because they may not repent doesn't negate our responsibility in pointing out their error. And pointing out their error may help their followers to see the falsehoods they represent.

Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.

[KingsGambit]

This wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults.

[Scrawly]

TD Jakes has moved away from his modalistic heresy, so that's one

Very good. Can you provide me a source here? I would like to know exactly what propelled him to change his mind.

Thanks!

[Scrawly]

Just because they may not repent doesn't negate our responsibility in pointing out their error. And pointing out their error may help their followers to see the falsehoods they represent.

Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.

Great I look forward to the verse.

[Scrawly]

This wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults.

Sure those are some valid points. Glad you dodged a cult bro.

[Bill the Cat]

Very good. Can you provide me a source here? I would like to know exactly what propelled him to change his mind.

Thanks!

http://www.christianitytoday.com/gle...tml?paging=off