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So, WHO is Joseph Prince, and what's he all about?

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  • #16
    I think a lot of the people who listen to these preachers are essentially looking for self-help. Many are in dire circumstances and/or had very difficult lives in the past - abused, raped, etc. They have some foggy idea of God and they were reared in the cultural milieu of Christianity, so naturally they seek out people who use buzz words such as "God", "Jesus", "Bible", etc. because it's familiar to them and they were probably taught that these things are good. They are looking for some sort of positive, uplifting message before they commit suicide or break-down from the personal pressure in their daily lives.

    As for the motivational speakers themselves, well, I imagine some were probably in similar circumstances, yet managed to get out and better themselves and attributed much of their strength during those times to God and now they genuinely want to share their experience and source of strength with others - Joyce Meyer comes to mind here. Then there are others who are greedy businessmen who are preying upon the weak and naïve and extracting as much money as they can from them. These people's hearts have never been changed nor do they understand the Scripture's - and they don't really care to. They might genuinely believe in God and the power of the Holy Spirit - but in their greed they only see God as a means to fuel their lavish lifestyles and categorize it as a blessing in their depraved mind.

    Sad situation all around really and to come down like a thunderbolt on any of these people will generally be counterproductive.

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
      Sad situation all around really and to come down like a thunderbolt on any of these people will generally be counterproductive.
      I think it depends on whether you're talking about the false teachers themselves or just the people duped by them. If you're talking about the victims, I'd agree. But the NT authors pulled no punches in calling out false teachers.
      "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
        I think a lot of the people who listen to these preachers are essentially looking for self-help. Many are in dire circumstances and/or had very difficult lives in the past - abused, raped, etc. They have some foggy idea of God and they were reared in the cultural milieu of Christianity, so naturally they seek out people who use buzz words such as "God", "Jesus", "Bible", etc. because it's familiar to them and they were probably taught that these things are good. They are looking for some sort of positive, uplifting message before they commit suicide or break-down from the personal pressure in their daily lives.

        As for the motivational speakers themselves, well, I imagine some were probably in similar circumstances, yet managed to get out and better themselves and attributed much of their strength during those times to God and now they genuinely want to share their experience and source of strength with others - Joyce Meyer comes to mind here. Then there are others who are greedy businessmen who are preying upon the weak and naïve and extracting as much money as they can from them. These people's hearts have never been changed nor do they understand the Scripture's - and they don't really care to. They might genuinely believe in God and the power of the Holy Spirit - but in their greed they only see God as a means to fuel their lavish lifestyles and categorize it as a blessing in their depraved mind.

        Sad situation all around really and to come down like a thunderbolt on any of these people will generally be counterproductive.
        The false teachers are the modern day version of the Pharisees, and Jesus certainly pulled no punches when he dealt with them. They exploit the people whom you are describing in your post.

        But the followers are not blameless either. They are like those who followed Jesus only for the healings and the free food. They were not true followers and fell away, and are to be pitied, as are the current day ones who are only there for the "healings and miracles".

        And prayed for. And told the truth about those they are following.


        Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

        Comment


        • #19
          Actually, I'd like to somewhat amend what I said in post #17. Jude 1:22-23 says:
          Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh.
          My understanding is that even though it says doubt, this is thought to refer more to people who have come under the influence of false teachers. So what I'm seeing here is that the way we handle the situation is on a case by case basis with how "harsh" we come down.
          "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

          Comment


          • #20
            Yes, I basically agree. I just think it is necessary to point out that the people under the influence of these false teachers are by and large unbelievers themselves. They really need to be wisely led away from the nonsense peddled by the false teachers and shown the true gospel and exposed to genuine Christianity. The sad part is seemingly most of them are not looking for that.

            As for the false teachers themselves, well, I don't think appealing to Scripture will be of much use in getting them to change their minds, because they too are not really looking for true religion.

            So you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion.

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
              So you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion.
              That clearly wasn't Jude's view, though. He thought that tangible action could be taken to reclaim people in that position.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                I think it depends on whether you're talking about the false teachers themselves or just the people duped by them. If you're talking about the victims, I'd agree. But the NT authors pulled no punches in calling out false teachers.
                Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                  That clearly wasn't Jude's view, though. He thought that tangible action could be taken to reclaim people in that position.
                  I think the false teachers during the primitive Christian church when sound doctrine was still in the process of being established was quite a bit different from our situation now. Anyone who would snub a commentary written by scholars on the Scripture's in exchange for Joel Osteen's books clearly is not someone that needs to be snatched away from thoroughgoing deception but someone who needs to be saved like any other unbeliever.

                  If someone can give me testimonies by people who's eyes were opened by the work of discernment ministries after once following Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn or whoever, I might change my mind.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                    Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.
                    TD Jakes has moved away from his modalistic heresy, so that's one
                    That's what
                    - She

                    Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                    - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                    I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                    - Stephen R. Donaldson

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                      Yes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.
                      Just because they may not repent doesn't negate our responsibility in pointing out their error. And pointing out their error may help their followers to see the falsehoods they represent.

                      Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.


                      Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        This wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

                        Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults.
                        "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Bill the Cat View Post
                          TD Jakes has moved away from his modalistic heresy, so that's one
                          Very good. Can you provide me a source here? I would like to know exactly what propelled him to change his mind.

                          Thanks!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by mossrose View Post
                            Just because they may not repent doesn't negate our responsibility in pointing out their error. And pointing out their error may help their followers to see the falsehoods they represent.

                            Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.
                            Great I look forward to the verse.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                              This wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.

                              Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults.
                              Sure those are some valid points. Glad you dodged a cult bro.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by Scrawly View Post
                                Very good. Can you provide me a source here? I would like to know exactly what propelled him to change his mind.

                                Thanks!
                                http://www.christianitytoday.com/gle...tml?paging=off
                                That's what
                                - She

                                Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
                                - Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)

                                I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
                                - Stephen R. Donaldson

                                Comment

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