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Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
Discussion on matters of general mainstream evangelical Christian theology that do not fit within Theology 201. Have some spiritual gifts ceased today? Is the KJV the only viable translation for the church today? In what sense are the books of the bible inspired and what are those books? Church government? Modern day prophets and apostles?
This forum is primarily for Christians to discuss matters of Christian doctrine, and is not the area for debate between atheists (or those opposing orthodox Christianity) and Christians. Inquiring atheists (or sincere seekers/doubters/unorthodox) seeking only Christian participation and having demonstrated a manner that does not seek to undermine the orthodox Christian faith of others are also welcome, but must seek Moderator permission first. When defining "Christian" or "orthodox" for purposes of this section, we mean persons holding to the core essentials of the historic Christian faith such as the Trinity, the Creatorship of God, the virgin birth, the bodily resurrection of Christ, the atonement, the future bodily return of Christ, the future bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust, and the final judgment. Persons not holding to these core doctrines are welcome to participate in the Comparative Religions section without restriction, in Theology 201 as regards to the nature of God and salvation with limited restrictions, and in Christology for issues surrounding the person of Christ and the Trinity. Atheists are welcome to discuss and debate these issues in the Apologetics 301 forum without such restrictions.
Additionally and rarely, there may be some topics or lines of discussion that within the Moderator's discretion fall so outside the bounds of mainstream orthodox doctrine (in general Christian circles or in the TheologyWeb community) or that deny certain core values that are the Christian convictions of forum leadership that may be more appropriately placed within Unorthodox Theology 201. NO personal offense should be taken by such discretionary decision for none is intended. While inerrancy is NOT considered a requirement for posting in this section, a general respect for the Bible text and a respect for the inerrantist position of others is requested.
The Tweb rules apply here like they do everywhere at Tweb, if you haven't read them, now would be a good time.
Forum Rules: Here
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So, WHO is Joseph Prince, and what's he all about?
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostSad situation all around really and to come down like a thunderbolt on any of these people will generally be counterproductive."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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The false teachers are the modern day version of the Pharisees, and Jesus certainly pulled no punches when he dealt with them. They exploit the people whom you are describing in your post.
But the followers are not blameless either. They are like those who followed Jesus only for the healings and the free food. They were not true followers and fell away, and are to be pitied, as are the current day ones who are only there for the "healings and miracles".
And prayed for. And told the truth about those they are following.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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Actually, I'd like to somewhat amend what I said in post #17. Jude 1:22-23 says:Be merciful to those who doubt; 23 save others by snatching them from the fire; to others show mercy, mixed with fear—hating even the clothing stained by corrupted flesh."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Yes, I basically agree. I just think it is necessary to point out that the people under the influence of these false teachers are by and large unbelievers themselves. They really need to be wisely led away from the nonsense peddled by the false teachers and shown the true gospel and exposed to genuine Christianity. The sad part is seemingly most of them are not looking for that.
As for the false teachers themselves, well, I don't think appealing to Scripture will be of much use in getting them to change their minds, because they too are not really looking for true religion.
So you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostSo you are basically left with exposing the false teachers to born-again Christian's who are more than capable of discerning that they speak nonsense and falsehood, and thus such a ministry ultimately leads to little more than preaching to the choir, in my opinion."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI think it depends on whether you're talking about the false teachers themselves or just the people duped by them. If you're talking about the victims, I'd agree. But the NT authors pulled no punches in calling out false teachers.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThat clearly wasn't Jude's view, though. He thought that tangible action could be taken to reclaim people in that position.
If someone can give me testimonies by people who's eyes were opened by the work of discernment ministries after once following Joel Osteen or Benny Hinn or whoever, I might change my mind.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostYes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostYes, it is fine to state that these false teachers are en route to hell because that is true. However, it is counterproductive to say that to them. They will merely dismiss you as possessed by the devil and see it as a form of persecution. If you have an example of one of these false teachers repenting because of a sermon/interview by John McArthur (or someone else) denouncing the heresy then I would be happy to retract my statement.
Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
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This wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.
Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by mossrose View PostJust because they may not repent doesn't negate our responsibility in pointing out their error. And pointing out their error may help their followers to see the falsehoods they represent.
Scripture says that we have a responsibility to point out error in others. I can't remember the passage off hand and am heading out, but will look it up when I get home.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThis wasn't a discernment ministry, but let give myself as an example. In college, I went to a campus event and while in line to get in, was approached by a nice-seeming guy who wanted to chat about football. Then he asked me about whether I was in any church groups on campus and invited me to a Bible study, and got my phone number. I looked into who this was and found an article in a secular newspaper about how this was a cult. I also talked to somebody I know (who used to be a moderator here on TWeb) who was familiar with this group. I feel like I dodged a bullet.
Also, these provide information so that maybe if you have a friend or family member who is in danger of getting sucked into a cult, that you can warn them. Some of these discernment ministries go too far (like Rick Miesel) but in general it is worth having something from a legitimate Christian perspective come up when somebody Googles the names of heretics/cults.
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Originally posted by Scrawly View PostVery good. Can you provide me a source here? I would like to know exactly what propelled him to change his mind.
Thanks!That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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