What does Leave & Cleave mean for couples?

[Spartacus]

I know you've been struggling with this for quite a while, Prin. I could shoot my mouth off with all sorts of ramblings, but I don't think there's much I can say that will actually help you, aside from praying for you and your extended family.

[One Bad Pig]

hi OBP, i have worked on letting go of the grudge and at times I really thought i did but when he pays such attention to her whereas it appears he is not 'leaving and cleaving' but clinging would it really matter that i let go of the grudge if I see it continues? If I truly do let it go, (how on earth?) than it will only accomplish me feeling better about it (which is great) but he is still putting her first, is that not right?

It's not right that he's putting her first. However, you can't control what he or she does; only your reaction to it. We as humans have a tendency to accept people for how we think we can change them, not as they are - which tends to cause disappointment in relationships because we don't have as much influence over how other people are as we'd like. It's a thorny problem, and no mistake.

[princesa]

I know you've been struggling with this for quite a while, Prin. I could shoot my mouth off with all sorts of ramblings, but I don't think there's much I can say that will actually help you, aside from praying for you and your extended family.

thanks spart

[princesa]

It's not right that he's putting her first. However, you can't control what he or she does; only your reaction to it. We as humans have a tendency to accept people for how we think we can change them, not as they are - which tends to cause disappointment in relationships because we don't have as much influence over how other people are than we'd like. It's a thorny problem, and no mistake.

Thanks. I think my problem honestly is figuring out if he is putting her first because he doesn't cut her off to once a week phone calls. I sometimes wonder if I'm being unreasonable. See? I don't know for sure that he is putting her first or if I only think he is. How do I measure?

[Spartacus]

Thanks. I think my problem honestly is figuring out if he is putting her first because he doesn't cut her off to once a week phone calls. I sometimes wonder if I'm being unreasonable. See? I don't know for sure that he is putting her first or if I only think he is. How do I measure?

Is there anything in your shared marriage vows that you think he isn't living up to? In what ways is he falling short of what he solemnly swore to do?

[princesa]

Is there anything in your shared marriage vows that you think he isn't living up to? In what ways is he falling short of what he solemnly swore to do?

Honor? If your wife is trying to explain that the emotional bond may be a bit unhealthy and just try calling once a week, tell her you were busy and that's why you didn't call back, she'll perhaps loosen her clinging. He is like the surrogate husband since she is single. I think he's afraid he'll stop being her baby. Its sickening.

Other than that, he's a good husband.

Also, we don't see her during the holidays, we went once this year and it was awful. Every holiday is sacred and I spend it with my children, this has been an argument for years too. But we don't go and I always feel he seems nostalgic like he misses her on Christmas instead of seeing the blessing in front of his eyes. I could be wrong but i doubt it.

[JCAtheist]

Thanks. I think my problem honestly is figuring out if he is putting her first because he doesn't cut her off to once a week phone calls. I sometimes wonder if I'm being unreasonable. See? I don't know for sure that he is putting her first or if I only think he is. How do I measure?

Maybe by making a list of what is actually important to you, and getting him to do the same thing... and then comparing them, perhaps. This way you can both find common ground again, and maybe realise what each of you finds important. It's very easy for us to assume we know something about someone we are close to, but it's not always the case. I still discover things out about my wife after 26 years of us being together.

Finding some other focus and then start taking a look at the issue once you are more 'solid' seems like a sensible approach.

Personally, I don't see an issue with a son being in contact with one, or both of their parents, even if it is every day. Might be unusual, as I stated before, but... I can't say it's wrong. What does appear to be wrong is how this contact makes you feel due to the issues as you see them. Does this mean you are being unreasonable? Maybe, to a degree.. but then, so is he, and so is she - from what's been presented here.

You can't measure that without taking a step back and looking at it all more objectively. And, unfortunately, no one here that doesn't know you or them personally is going to be able to give you a truly informed response. I hope you find a good path forward.

[princesa]

Maybe by making a list of what is actually important to you, and getting him to do the same thing... and then comparing them, perhaps. This way you can both find common ground again, and maybe realise what each of you finds important. It's very easy for us to assume we know something about someone we are close to, but it's not always the case. I still discover things out about my wife after 26 years of us being together.

Finding some other focus and then start taking a look at the issue once you are more 'solid' seems like a sensible approach.

Personally, I don't see an issue with a son being in contact with one, or both of their parents, even if it is every day. Might be unusual, as I stated before, but... I can't say it's wrong. What does appear to be wrong is how this contact makes you feel due to the issues as you see them. Does this mean you are being unreasonable? Maybe, to a degree.. but then, so is he, and so is she - from what's been presented here.

You can't measure that without taking a step back and looking at it all more objectively. And, unfortunately, no one here that doesn't know you or them personally is going to be able to give you a truly informed response. I hope you find a good path forward.

Thank you. In what way do you find she is being unreasonable from what i've stated? I do appreciate your response and will reread.

[Spartacus]

Honor? If your wife is trying to explain that the emotional bond may be a bit unhealthy and just try calling once a week, tell her you were busy and that's why you didn't call back, she'll perhaps loosen her clinging. He is like the surrogate husband since she is single. I think he's afraid he'll stop being her baby. Its sickening.

Other than that, he's a good husband.

It seems as though your concern is about your husband's spiritual welfare. Given that his mother is apparently lonely, what would you describe as a healthy approach to their relationship? Lying? Withholding affection? Those don't seem like healthy behaviors to me, either.

[JCAtheist]

Thank you. In what way do you find she is being unreasonable from what i've stated? I do appreciate your response and will reread.

Well from what you have said, she has treated you poorly in the past. I'm sure this has been brought up before between you all, no? If not, and she doesn't know you feel as you do, well then I can see a little more where your problem stems from. If it has, and she is aware that you have felt hurt by her actions before, then I would suspect that she's aware of your feelings and is being unreasonable by discounting them and continuing to cause possible friction in your marriage.

You mentioned about how she treats you and the grandchildren, basically ignoring you and them for him etc. So, yes, from what you have said, she seems to be an unreasonable person. However, I still maintain that your husband and you need to discuss and come to some joint agreement as to what stance to take... as you two are married (with children), and that takes priority. Imho.

[princesa]

It seems as though your concern is about your husband's spiritual welfare. Given that his mother is apparently lonely, what would you describe as a healthy approach to their relationship? Lying? Withholding affection? Those don't seem like healthy behaviors to me, either.

Is it wrong to withhold affection if this affection seemingly trumps the feelings of your spouse?

[princesa]

Well from what you have said, she has treated you poorly in the past. I'm sure this has been brought up before between you all, no? If not, and she doesn't know you feel as you do, well then I can see a little more where your problem stems from. If it has, and she is aware that you have felt hurt by her actions before, then I would suspect that she's aware of your feelings and is being unreasonable by discounting them and continuing to cause possible friction in your marriage.

You mentioned about how she treats you and the grandchildren, basically ignoring you and them for him etc. So, yes, from what you have said, she seems to be an unreasonable person. However, I still maintain that your husband and you need to discuss and come to some joint agreement as to what stance to take... as you two are married (with children), and that takes priority. Imho.

Well, she rarely calls me and when she does i always ignore and never return her calls. Only one time in 19 years of knowing her has she said 'you know, if i ever seemed mean in the past i was only doing it for your own good'...that's the closest i get to an apology. She calls on the childrens birthdays when she's reminded and she'll leave me a sweet voice mail maybe twice a year but i am stone.

even if i did forgive her, I still wish I would feel my husbands loyalty was first to his wife.

[Spartacus]

Is it wrong to withhold affection if this affection seemingly trumps the feelings of your spouse?

I don't know, but I'm not sure if that any answer to that question would completely address the questions I raised.

[Obsidian]

I think the Bible teaches that if you be nice and forgive people, the majority of the time they will be nice back. That goes for both the mother and your husband. Who cares if she apologizes? It sounds like she is single and lonely anyway. She is getting plenty of punishment for the poor way that she treats people.

To the extent that the phone calls bother you, I think you should just get him to agree to take the calls at a time when he is away from you, so you don't have to be bothered by it. Personally, I think phone calls in general are annoying -- no matter who they're from. And it bugs me when people are always on the phone around me. So that's where I'm coming from. Have him yak with his mother elsewhere.

It really doesn't make sense how this is supposed to be a useful thing to share.

Yeah, I guess it wasn't that useful. But the useful thing would be to remember all the good things about your husband that (hopefully) outweigh this negative. And focus on that.

[princesa]

I don't know, but I'm not sure if that any answer to that question would completely address the questions I raised.

To answer your question, I think a healthy approach would be to call his mother once a week to make sure she's ok and if she needs anything.

Calling everyday a few times a day, or even every other day, for long periods of time, seems an unhealthy relationship for a man of over 40 to have with his mommy. I hope that answers, i feel he needs to slowly break the clinginess.