Originally posted by Sparko
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Pope Francis: Christians and Muslims Worship the Same God?
Collapse
X
-
-
Originally posted by mossrose View PostIf they come to my house I don't let them in.
I have plenty of other opportunities to tell people about Christ crucified without inviting Jw's and Mormons in when they knock on my door.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostFirst of all, most Mormon lay people don't know anything about these facts. They believe that they believe in a god very much like most Christians. And really you're just repeating your previous argument here. I see no reason to assume that just because satan presented a distorted conception of god to a cult leader that means that the conception is not referring to exactly what it is...a distorted conception of the actual one true God. Are they referring to the actual one true God? Yes. It is simply a distorted conception. Are Oneness Pentecostals worshipping a completely and radically different god from that of orthodox believers? No, of course not. They simply have a deeply flawed understanding of who God is, and with a bit of education on our part, and humility on their part, they can be walked back from their heretical conception of God. Telling them that they don't worship the same God at all is more likely to build walls than bridges, and it's not the truth anyways.
So if I started a cult and told everyone that I was the God of Abraham and they should ignore the bible and only listen to me, and I taught them completely different things to believe about God's nature and how to be saved, you would come along and say they were worshiping the real God because they believed that I was the God of Abraham?
That's what you are saying here.
No when you were in the cult you did not worship the true God. You worshiped a false God created by your cult leader. Did he have a some superficial similarities to the real thing? sure. But the result was a lie, a false God.
Here is an interesting article from a former muslim who says that the God of Islam is not the God of Christianity and makes pretty much the same points we have in this thread and even addresses some of the points you try to use.
With this desire for love in mind, I turn now to the question: Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Like all good questions, the answer is more complex than most want, but I am confident of my position: Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God, but given the complexity of the matter we all ought to stop demonizing those who disagree with us.
I should start by saying this: for years after leaving Islam and accepting Jesus as Lord, I believed that Muslims worshiped the same God as Christians but that they were simply wrong about what He is like and what He has done. After all, I had been taught as a young Muslim to worship the God who created Adam and Eve, who rescued Noah from the flood, who promised Abraham a vast progeny, who helped Moses escape Egypt, who made the Virgin Mary great with child, who sent Jesus into the world, who helped the disciples overcome, and who is still sovereign today. Is that not the God of the Bible?
continued at:
http://rzim.org/global-blog/do-musli...-the-same-god/
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostWhat do you feel about those Christians who do let them into their house? A number of Christians here have talked extensively about sharing the gospel in their home with Mormons who've come knocking. Do you believe that they were disobeying the Bible to do so?
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostWhat the heck Adrift. So someone can worship something totally different than the God of the bible and as long as they THINK they are worshiping the God of the bible, they are? That's frikkin insane.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostSo if I started a cult and told everyone that I was the God of Abraham and they should ignore the bible and only listen to me, and I taught them completely different things to believe about God's nature and how to be saved, you would come along and say they were worshiping the real God because they believed that I was the God of Abraham?
Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat's what you are saying here.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostNo when you were in the cult you did not worship the true God. You worshiped a false God created by your cult leader. Did he have a some superficial similarities to the real thing? sure. But the result was a lie, a false God.
Originally posted by Sparko View PostHere is an interesting article from a former muslim who says that the God of Islam is not the God of Christianity and makes pretty much the same points we have in this thread and even addresses some of the points you try to use.
With this desire for love in mind, I turn now to the question: Do Muslims and Christians worship the same God? Like all good questions, the answer is more complex than most want, but I am confident of my position: Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God, but given the complexity of the matter we all ought to stop demonizing those who disagree with us.
I should start by saying this: for years after leaving Islam and accepting Jesus as Lord, I believed that Muslims worshiped the same God as Christians but that they were simply wrong about what He is like and what He has done. After all, I had been taught as a young Muslim to worship the God who created Adam and Eve, who rescued Noah from the flood, who promised Abraham a vast progeny, who helped Moses escape Egypt, who made the Virgin Mary great with child, who sent Jesus into the world, who helped the disciples overcome, and who is still sovereign today. Is that not the God of the Bible?
continued at:
http://rzim.org/global-blog/do-musli...-the-same-god/
Comment
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostWe aren't talking about people who are worshiping something totally different from the God of the Bible.
You realize that Mormons do not ignore the Bible, right? That it's part of their holy canon.
No. Not even close.
Wouldn't I, of all people, know who I thought I was worshiping then, and who I believe I'm worshiping now, or do you now doubt my claim to being a Christian?
I was already aware of that article, but thanks. I think he makes an interesting point when he states "Muslims and Christians do not worship the same God, but given the complexity of the matter we all ought to stop demonizing those who disagree with us."
Mormons use their teachings to completely change the meaning and context of the bible. They interpret the bible through their book of mormon and extraneous teachings. The God of Mormonism is a glorified man, one of an infinite series. This is not the first universe, nor will it be the last. Everyone gets their own when they become a God.
Now just because not every mormon is aware of those teaching doesn't change the fact that the God that mormonism teaches and worships is not the God of the bible. If any do worship the God of the bible it is through pure luck (or the holy spirit acting on them) and not because they are worshiping the God of Mormonism
Same with Islam. Sure I think the holy spirit works on muslims and causes many to convert. That doesn't mean that the god muslims worship is the true God. It can't be.
Now the God the Arab Christians worship, who they call Allah also, IS the God of the bible. "Allah" simply means "god" so it can refer to any god. But Allah of Islam is not the true God. It is a false God.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Cerebrum123 View PostWhich is the reason that I would say modern Jews don't worship the same God as Christians.
Originally posted by Cerebrum123Originally posted by LeonhardThere is as great a difference between a Wahabi Muslim and a Sunni Muslim, as there is between, a Baptist and a Roman Catholic. I would not dare tell either group how they ought to read their own scriptures when they read it differently. An exegetical discussion can be had, but I think it's foolish to do evangelism by telling a Muslim that he's not being a proper Wahabi. Textual criticism, moral argumentation, etc... those are perfectly valid and have some use in discussions.Originally posted by LeonhardThat depends on what you mean. From my perspective, no one outside of the Catholic Church or the Eastern Orthodox Church is "true Christians." That's if you define the term in the narrowest sense of those people explicitly having the faith that Christ taught to the apostles, and that the Church Fathers themselves would have considered Christians.
Since Islam is a false religion, the notion of a 'true Muslim' seems a bit of an oxymoron to me. Islam is a heretical cult. As such there's no true anything it can be.
In fact, I'd go so far as consider it a heretical Christian cult, that went on to become a world religion. It has a new prophet, it tends towards the same heretical tendencies that many Christian personality cults tend towards (denial of the trinity being one). Its fastings and disciplines are borrowed heavily from what the Desert Fathers did. This is more or less how the Christian theologians in the medieval ages saw Islam. I see no reason to view them differently.
If a Muslim isn't willing to take their own scriptures seriously, then I have no reason to expect them to take the Bible seriously in a discussion.
I'm not dismissing Christian apologetical treatments of Islam if that's what you're accusing me off.
Besides, I think the best way to get a Muslim to leave Islam is for them to see what the Koran, and Hadith say. Especially since the Koran commands Muslims to seriously inquire about the Torah and Injeel(or Gospel). Get them to seriously look at the Bible as a whole, and then they will be able to see why the Koran is false.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI am not demonizing you. I just think you are frikkin insane
Mormons use their teachings to completely change the meaning and context of the bible. They interpret the bible through their book of mormon and extraneous teachings. The God of Mormonism is a glorified man, one of an infinite series. This is not the first universe, nor will it be the last. Everyone gets their own when they become a God.
Now just because not every mormon is aware of those teaching doesn't change the fact that the God that mormonism teaches and worships is not the God of the bible. If any do worship the God of the bible it is through pure luck (or the holy spirit acting on them) and not because they are worshiping the God of Mormonism
Same with Islam. Sure I think the holy spirit works on muslims and causes many to convert. That doesn't mean that the god muslims worship is the true God. It can't be.
Now the God the Arab Christians worship, who they call Allah also, IS the God of the bible. "Allah" simply means "god" so it can refer to any god. But Allah of Islam is not the true God. It is a false God.
Comment
-
But indian christians say deva/bhagwan for God but that doesnt mean they worship hindu gods.When arab christians say allah they refer to the father son and holy spirit same way indian christians say deva to refer to the father son and holy spirit. Just like allah is word for god in arab land same way deva is a word for god in the land of india.Both are pagan words used to refer to true god.Last edited by noikodee; 03-10-2017, 01:08 PM.
Comment
-
I would like to note though since anyone showing liberal tendencies these days is shot down, that I do consider the Quran a vile product of dark forces, and I pray that all Muslims everywhere see the light and convert to Christianity.
Comment
-
Just like allah is word for god in arab land same way deva is a word for god in the land of india.Both are pagan words used to refer to true god.
Comment
-
-
Originally posted by Adrift View PostOk, well, I believe this may just be a topic where we're going to have to agree to disagree for now. Maybe some day I'll change my mind on the subject, but I don't think that day will be today.
My stance is that Islam (and mormonism, etc) believes in a false God that may have been based in part on the real God.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Sparko View PostI have come to the same conclusion so at least we can agree on that.
My stance is that Islam (and mormonism, etc) believes in a false God that may have been based in part on the real God.
Then there is Christianity.
Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Thoughtful Monk, 04-14-2024, 04:34 PM
|
5 responses
49 views
0 likes
|
Last Post 04-28-2024, 05:40 PM | ||
Started by One Bad Pig, 04-10-2024, 12:35 PM
|
0 responses
28 views
1 like
|
Last Post
by One Bad Pig
04-10-2024, 12:35 PM
|
||
Started by NorrinRadd, 04-13-2022, 12:54 AM
|
45 responses
342 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by NorrinRadd
04-12-2024, 04:35 PM
|
||
Started by Zymologist, 07-09-2019, 01:18 PM
|
369 responses
17,368 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by NorrinRadd
04-27-2024, 01:18 PM
|
Comment