Welfare almost never "makes people lazy"

[jordanriver]

people don't like the lazybones on welfare, but they won't turn the government over to laborers because that's communism.


...but that's probably a good thing, I would hate to see what happens after decades of resentment building up when a worker cannot afford to pay for prescriptions and they see welfare recipients who can afford (who cant afford 'free') to make a doctor appointment every time they get a hangnail.

[JimL]

Actually, restricting voting rights to property owners is a sound policy when you consider that it prevents those who have not meaningfully contributed to society from simply voting for "wealth redistribution". It's a policy that I wish we could return to today. I'm reminded of a neighbor of mine who rented and dutifully voted in favor of every property tax increase because it would increase her benefits without having to pay a single dime out of her own pocket while our own taxes went up.

As for slavery, well, ask yourself which party was most instrumental in abolishing slavery in America and which party fought desegration every step of the way and continues to promote racist policies like affirmative action.

What you mean to say is that it was sound policy for the self centered wealthy minority, the rest of people be damned. And btw, the republican party that was most interested in abolishing slavery were those who you would now call rinos. The real republicans of the day were the southern dixicrats who later became republicans as a result of the racists republican agenda that was more suited their own.

[Mountain Man]

What you mean to say is that it was sound policy for the self centered wealthy minority, the rest of people be damned.

What I mean to say is exactly what I said, dumbass.

And btw, the republican party that was most interested in abolishing slavery were those who you would now call rinos. The real republicans of the day were the southern dixicrats who later became republicans as a result of the racists republican agenda that was more suited their own.

Revisionist history is so common core.

[Cow Poke]

Yes, the founding slave holders, whose conservative values prevented all but the elite, the wealthy male property owners, from having any say or representation in their government.

We have GOT to get that manure spreader fixed - here it is throwing the whole load all at once!

[Cow Poke]

As for slavery, well, ask yourself which party was most instrumental in abolishing slaver...

You realize who you're saying that to, no?

[Cow Poke]

There are no poor conservatives. If you own a refrigerator, a microwave, a television, or a cell phone, you aren't poor. Also, the only reason a person is poor is their own moral failings, and all conservatives are good Christians.

Wow.

Yeah!

[jordanriver]

Actually, restricting voting rights to property owners is a sound policy when you consider that it prevents those who have not meaningfully contributed to society from simply voting for "wealth redistribution". It's a policy that I wish we could return to today.

is that like a 'winners take all' economy.

[Mountain Man]

is that like a 'winners take all' economy.

Not really. Would you describe early America as "winners take all"?

[jordanriver]

Not really. Would you describe early America as "winners take all"?

I don't think so.
Didn't they have to share voting with the losers (except their slaves of course)

[Starlight]

I have a strong tendency to believe that MOST people are born with the same chance as everyone else. Along the way we make choices that influence our outcomes in life.

That seems a bit unbalanced. Surely our choices as well as our life circumstances both have important roles to play?

Circumstances in my own life brought this to my attention recently, when I had serious health issues lasting many months during which I was unable to do the kinds of things I normally would... it gave me a great deal of empathy for people whose health issues last years or a lifetime and prevent them having the same chances everybody else does.

I think it's also important not to neglect the role that social circumstances play. I am lucky enough to have been born a white English-speaking male into a middle-class home where my parents each have multiple degrees, have never divorced, and have been excellent parents my entire life, and I was born and raised in a beautiful and safe country. My upbringing and education was all that anyone could ask for, and put me in a position where I could do basically anything I wanted with my life, and thus I've been able to make whatever choices I like (save the occasional intermittent health issue). While it would feel good to say that all the successes in my life are my doing, and show that I am a good person who makes the right choices... the reality is that not everyone is born into the lucky circumstances I was. I was born a foot from the finish-line in terms of success... whereas when I look at the world I see a lot of people who have a very hard uphill race to run to get to where I started. Some of them live in societies that discriminate against them for the color of their skin, where the police are out to get them and employers will discriminate against them. Others don't get a quarter of the education I've had. For others, having enough money to put food on the table has been a constant issue of stress for them and their family their entire lives. And for others, constant poor health means everything is ten times harder and that there are many things they just can't do.

For some people life is hard, and every day is a struggle. For others... well I've never been stressed about money in my entire life, my most difficult decisions are things like where to go for holidays and how long, which TV program to watch in the evening, and which of all the different good job opportunities I should take. I feel like some people face more struggles and difficult choices in a single day, than I have faced in my entire life combined. To say that a black kid in America born in a ghetto to a poor and uneducated single mum, has the same chance in life I did, and that the different outcomes are purely a result of our choices... strikes me as bizarre to say the least.

[Cow Poke]

That seems a bit unbalanced. Surely our choices as well as our life circumstances both have important roles to play?

Circumstances in my own life brought this to my attention recently, when I had serious health issues lasting many months during which I was unable to do the kinds of things I normally would... it gave me a great deal of empathy for people whose health issues last years or a lifetime and prevent them having the same chances everybody else does.

I think it's also important not to neglect the role that social circumstances play. I am lucky enough to have been born a white English-speaking male into a middle-class home where my parents each have multiple degrees, have never divorced, and have been excellent parents my entire life, and I was born and raised in a beautiful and safe country. My upbringing and education was all that anyone could ask for, and put me in a position where I could do basically anything I wanted with my life, and thus I've been able to make whatever choices I like (save the occasional intermittent health issue). While it would feel good to say that all the successes in my life are my doing, and show that I am a good person who makes the right choices... the reality is that not everyone is born into the lucky circumstances I was. I was born a foot from the finish-line in terms of success... whereas when I look at the world I see a lot of people who have a very hard uphill race to run to get to where I started. Some of them live in societies that discriminate against them for the color of their skin, where the police are out to get them and employers will discriminate against them. Others don't get a quarter of the education I've had. For others, having enough money to put food on the table has been a constant issue of stress for them and their family their entire lives. And for others, constant poor health means everything is ten times harder and that there are many things they just can't do.

For some people life is hard, and every day is a struggle. For others... well I've never been stressed about money in my entire life, my most difficult decisions are things like where to go for holidays and how long, which TV program to watch in the evening, and which of all the different good job opportunities I should take. I feel like some people face more struggles and difficult choices in a single day, than I have faced in my entire life combined. To say that a black kid in America born in a ghetto to a poor and uneducated single mum, has the same chance in life I did, and that the different outcomes are purely a result of our choices... strikes me as bizarre to say the least.

At the same time, people born into, and growing up in, very difficult situations have the joy, when the succeed, of knowing that it was largely their own efforts that got them there.

[Starlight]

At the same time, people born into, and growing up in, very difficult situations have the joy, when they succeed, of knowing that it was largely their own efforts that got them there.

Er, sure, I guess?

Here's a cartoon I think speaks powerfully to the issue of different circumstances leading to different outcomes:





In that cartoon, I'm the guy on the left. Hopefully, however, I'm a bit more humble and a bit less arrogant than he is about recognizing that my successes in life haven't been so much my own accomplishments, as they have been the product of favorable life circumstances and the world giving things to me on a plate in a way they haven't been given to others.

[jordanriver]

Er, sure, I guess?

Here's a cartoon I think speaks powerfully to the issue of different circumstances leading to different outcomes:





In that cartoon, I'm the guy on the left. Hopefully, however, I'm a bit more humble and a bit less arrogant than he is about recognizing that my successes in life haven't been so much my own accomplishments, as they have been the product of favorable life circumstances and the world giving things to me on a plate in a way they haven't been given to others.

the one in a million paula's that rise from poverty to championship status will be used to say every paula can be a champion, with ambition and determination every human can be a winner, 300 million CEO's and no laborers.

[Cow Poke]

the one in a million paula's that rise from poverty to championship status will be used to say every paula can be a champion, with ambition and determination every human can be a winner, 300 million CEO's and no laborers.

They certainly won't know if they don't try.

[Adam]

It's probably not that few in number who make it from poverty to the top, but....
When they do it's phenomenal luck, not worthiness.

(I'm the total cynic, right?)