I'm not sure the Ten Commandments are a founding document, but I don't get why they can't be in a Court House.
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The Oklahoma Supreme Court rules against 10 Commndment monument
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe 3/5 compromise reduced the slave owner's influence without completely taking away the voice of the slaves."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Jaecp View PostWouldn't that require your average internet conservative to be able to understand irony?That's what
- She
Without a clear-cut definition of sin, morality becomes a mere argument over the best way to train animals
- Manya the Holy Szin (The Quintara Marathon)
I may not be as old as dirt, but me and dirt are starting to have an awful lot in common
- Stephen R. Donaldson
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Originally posted by Sam View Post
If that's "what the founders wanted", rather than what the culture of the day had established, then they did a pretty bad job of writing the Constitution. You can whine about "leftists" all you want ... the fact that the Constitution does not allow the preference of one religion above others is now a closed subject. Opposition from would-be crusaders or jihadists won't change that.
Whatever may have occurred in the states according to the cultural and/or religious practices of the day, they were not sanctioned by the supreme law of the United States, namely the Constitution. The Constitution is resolutely secular and one can only assume that the founding fathers knew what they were doing when they drafted it...even though many Christian preachers at the time attacked it specifically because it lacked any overt protection or promotion of Christianity.
Thus we have the absurdity of contemporary conservative Christians arguing that their religious beliefs are actually embedded in the text by implication when, at the time The Constitution was being voted on, they complained that it was too secular.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostThus we have the absurdity of contemporary conservative Christians arguing that their religious beliefs are actually embedded in the text by implication when, at the time The Constitution was being voted on, they complained that it was too secular.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostI never claimed that. But the establishment clause was never meant to prevent a religious monument on public ground. It was meant for one thing - to prevent the establishment of a National Church.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause
The erection of a Judeo/Christian monument outside the Oklahoma capitol building is clearly favouring "one religion over another" and "preferring religion over non-religion". Hence the monument must be removed.
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Originally posted by Sam View PostOriginally posted by seerHave it your say Sam... BTW - are you still a Christian?
Sam reminds me of myself 10 years ago... I was constantly wincing at Christians holding terrible theology and advocating silly ideas and views. For the most part I was able to mentally write it off as "those American fundamentalists are cuckoo and not real Christians". It was only when it became clear that the vast majority of mainstream Christians in my own country were dead set against gay rights that the falling piano crushed the camel's back and I washed my hands of the whole thing. I could tolerate stupid, but I wasn't going to continue to belong to a group actively promoting evil and oppression."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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Originally posted by Tassman View Postbut also prohibits government actions that unduly favor one religion over another. It also prohibits the government from unduly preferring religion over non-religion, or non-religion over religion".
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/establishment_clause
The erection of a Judeo/Christian monument outside the Oklahoma capitol building is clearly favouring "one religion over another" and "preferring religion over non-religion". Hence the monument must be removed.
The Continental-Confederation Congress, a legislative body that governed the United States from 1774 to 1789, contained an extraordinary number of deeply religious men. The amount of energy that Congress invested in encouraging the practice of religion in the new nation exceeded that expended by any subsequent American national government. Although the Articles of Confederation did not officially authorize Congress to concern itself with religion, the citizenry did not object to such activities. This lack of objection suggests that both the legislators and the public considered it appropriate for the national government to promote a nondenominational, nonpolemical Christianity.
Congress appointed chaplains for itself and the armed forces, sponsored the publication of a Bible, imposed Christian morality on the armed forces, and granted public lands to promote Christianity among the Indians. National days of thanksgiving and of "humiliation, fasting, and prayer" were proclaimed by Congress at least twice a year throughout the war. Congress was guided by "covenant theology," a Reformation doctrine especially dear to New England Puritans, which held that God bound himself in an agreement with a nation and its people. This agreement stipulated that they "should be prosperous or afflicted, according as their general Obedience or Disobedience thereto appears." Wars and revolutions were, accordingly, considered afflictions, as divine punishments for sin, from which a nation could rescue itself by repentance and reformation.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostI could tolerate stupid, but I wasn't going to continue to belong to a group actively promoting evil and oppression.Last edited by seer; 07-13-2015, 07:18 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostAs we have see Star, in your godless universe there is no objective evil, just opinion. So your opinion on this matter is really meaningless."I hate him passionately", he's "a demonic force" - Tucker Carlson, in private, on Donald Trump
"Every line of serious work that I have written since 1936 has been written, directly or indirectly, against totalitarianism and for democratic socialism" - George Orwell
"[Capitalism] as it exists today is, in my opinion, the real source of evils. I am convinced there is only one way to eliminate these grave evils, namely through the establishment of a socialist economy" - Albert Einstein
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