Lowering the Confederate Flag - and Wally World

[Bill the Cat]

superficial change offers nothing, tigers do not change their strips.

But you want the stars and bars to be taken down, don't you?

[Darth Executor]

The Democratic Party example is a false equivalency because the CSA does not exist any more, whereas the Democratic Party does. There are no more recent examples to judge the CSA by; all we have is in the dustbin of history.

No it isn't. The CSA does not exist anymore but the flag and its users do, and like the Democratic Party, things change:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...163334484.html

It's no great shock to learn that 19-year-old college student in South Carolina provoked a storm of protests after he'd hung a Confederate flag from his dorm room window. But here's the twist: The student in question, Byron Thomas, is black.
"I know it's kind of weird because I'm black," Thomas said in a video he posted online in response to his school's request that he take the flag down.

Thomas, who says he prefers to be called black rather than African-American, adds that he believes the Confederate flag is a sign of Southern pride, and not racism. The University of South Carolina Beaufort has since relented and said Thomas can put the flag back up in his room if he wants.

"When I look at this flag, I don't see racism. I see respect, Southern pride," Thomas said. "This flag was seen as a communication symbol" during the Civil War, he added. "I've been getting a lot of support from people. My generation is interested in freedom of speech."

The flag, like the Democratic Party, do not necessarily mean today what they meant a fifty, or a hundred or two hundred years ago. If that excuse is good enough for the Democratic Party then it should be good enough for the flag.

[Darth Executor]

I have not commented on the flag yet, just your false accusations concerning the Democratic Party.

The accusation is just as true of the Democratic Party as it is of the flag. If you don't think it's true of the Democratic Party then we should already know where you stand on the flag, though I doubt many of us count on your intellectual consistency.

[KingsGambit]

No it isn't. The CSA does not exist anymore but the flag and its users do, and like the Democratic Party, things change:

http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow...163334484.html





The flag, like the Democratic Party, do not necessarily mean today what they meant a fifty, or a hundred or two hundred years ago. If that excuse is good enough for the Democratic Party then it should be good enough for the flag.

So you've found one person who takes it the way you prefer. How is the flag more widely perceived beyond your cherry picked anecdote?

[shunyadragon]

But you want the stars and bars to be taken down, don't you?

I have not yet expressed an opinion on the flag flying at the Confederate Memorial in front of the State Capital. First I am opposed to responding to a problem on the emotional level which is what is presently happening. The design of Mississippi flag and the use of the flag in recent history is problematic, because it is the official state flag and not a commemorative flag at a memorial.

I am a history buff, particularly the Revolution and the Civil War, and Naval Warfare in general. I have participated in both the Bicentennial Revolution reenactments , and Centennial Civil War reenactments, and continue to be active in the commemoration events, but not reenactments, and study the wars. I often visit the Sons of Confederacy meetings and lectures. I am concerned with the strong views of this organizations members which tends to justify the rebellion as righteous defense of state's rights only, and many believe seceding from the union is justified.

I do believe the fallen soldiers in ALL sides of the conflict should be honored and celebrated, but the history should represented as it is, and not justified.

[Cow Poke]

I'm inclined to let South Carolina make its own decisions on this.

I think that goes without saying. But I'll say it, too!

But if I were a South Carolinian, I'd be uncomfortable knowing this symbol acts as a standard for folks I'd be ashamed to have visiting my home.

I really don't know what the climate for this is in South Carolina. And I honestly don't have any experience with the "rebel flag" being about race, so much as "Southern living*". Maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles.




*and not being told what to do by Yankees

[Cow Poke]

I am a history buff, particularly the Revolution and the Civil War, and Navel Warfare in general.

I'm hoping you mean Naval Warfare, as in Navy, as opposed to a war of the bellybuttons. (the Innies vs. the Outties?)

[JonathanL]

I think that goes without saying. But I'll say it, too!



I really don't know what the climate for this is in South Carolina. And I honestly don't have any experience with the "rebel flag" being about race, so much as "Southern living*". Maybe I'm traveling in the wrong circles.




*and not being told what to do by Yankees

You're all Yankees to me.

[Darth Executor]

So you've found one person who takes it the way you prefer. How is the flag more widely perceived beyond your cherry picked anecdote?

Let's find out:

http://www.people-press.org/2011/04/...till-divisive/

9% of people have a positive reaction to it.
30% have a negative reaction
The other 60% have no opinion.

So the view that it stands for slavery and segregation is held by, at most, 39% of the population. Your view is a minority, and that assumes all of those who like or hate it agree with you on its meaning. In truth the numbers are probably a lot less than that, with many of those who like it liking it for other reasons and those who hate it hating it because it gives offense to others rather than that they personally disagree with what you claim is its true meaning.

Even among blacks, those with a negative reaction to it don't break 50%.

[Zymologist]

I have not yet expressed an opinion on the flag flying at the Confederate Memorial in front of the State Capital. First I am opposed to responding to a problem on the emotional level which is what is presently happening. The design of Mississippi flag and the use of the flag in recent history is problematic, because it is the official state flag and not a commemorative flag at a memorial.

I am a history buff, particularly the Revolution and the Civil War, and Navel Warfare in general. I have participated in both the Bicentennial Revolution reenactments , and Centennial Civil War reenactments, and continue to be active in the commemoration events, but not reenactments, and study the wars. I often visit the Sons of Confederacy meetings and lectures.

I do believe the fallen soldiers in ALL sides of the conflict should be honored and celebrated, but the history should represented as it is, and not justified.

I'm sorry, but this made me

[shunyadragon]

The accusation is just as true of the Democratic Party as it is of the flag. If you don't think it's true of the Democratic Party then we should already know where you stand on the flag, though I doubt many of us count on your intellectual consistency.

I believe in separating the issues.

[shunyadragon]

I'm sorry, but this made me

Spelling error corrected. Navel Warfare is fought with Hula Hoops with nails.

[shunyadragon]

I'm hoping you mean Naval Warfare, as in Navy, as opposed to a war of the bellybuttons. (the Innies vs. the Outties?)

Sorry for the misspelling. Appropriately corrected. Navel Warfare is fought with Hula Hoops with nails.

[seer]

I'm hoping you mean Naval Warfare, as in Navy, as opposed to a war of the bellybuttons. (the Innies vs. the Outties?)

Did he really write Navel?

[Cow Poke]

Sorry for the misspelling. Appropriately corrected. Navel Warfare is fought with Hula Hoops with nails.

Yowie!