Originally posted by Mountain Man
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Indiana's governor signs bill allowing businesses to reject gay customers
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhether or not you personally agree with the interpretation, the fact is that biblical passages have been used historically to enforce the subordination of women, oppose miscegenation and support slavery, just as they are being used today to promote faith-based bigotry against homosexuals. And just as the former have been relegated to the dustbin of history for good reason so the new Indiana laws appear to be going the same way. The Church, despite its posturing, usually seems to get it right in the end."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThis says it all right here:
The Indiana law is not about wanting to unfairly discriminate against gays, it's about not wanting to be a party to their sin.
Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostI dunno what you're smoking but the subordination of women, opposition to miscegenation and support for slavery have not been relegated to the dustbin of history. The hubris of the most dysgenic socio-religious group in the history of humanity never ceases to amaze me.Last edited by Tassman; 04-01-2015, 11:58 PM.
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostIn the eyes of the law they have been regardless of your personal biases on the subject."As for my people, children are their oppressors, and women rule over them. O my people, they which lead thee cause thee to err, and destroy the way of thy paths." Isaiah 3:12
There is no such thing as innocence, only degrees of guilt.
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Originally posted by Darth Executor View PostYou realize there is more to this planet that the West, whose population relative to the rest of the world has cratered, right?
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Originally posted by Dumbassman View PostWhether or not you personally agree with the interpretation, the fact is that biblical passages have been used historically to enforce the subordination of women, oppose miscegenation and support slavery, just as they are being used today to promote faith-based bigotry against homosexuals. And just as the former have been relegated to the dustbin of history for good reason so the new Indiana laws appear to be going the same way. The Church, despite its posturing, usually seems to get it right in the end.
Homosexuality is a whole different matter because the Bible explicitly calls it a sin, period. End of argument. Whether American churches swing one way or the other on the issue, the Word of God won't say anything different.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Dumbassman View PostWhat about being a party to sin by serving an adulterous man: "Anyone who divorces his wife and marries another woman commits adultery" (Luke 16.18)?Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou really don't get it. Serving a meal to someone is one thing, and nobody has a problem with that. This pizza shop even said they welcome homosexual diners. What they won't do is be party to their abominable activities by catering a gay wedding. And according to the First Amendment, they shouldn't have to. But who follows the Constitution any more, right?
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWhat you mean is that "biblical passages have been used incorrectly to enforce the subordination of women, oppose miscegenation and support slavery". Show me someone who uses scripture to support the subordinatinon of women and I will show you someone who is misusing scripture.
Homosexuality is a whole different matter because the Bible explicitly calls it a sin, period. End of argument. Whether American churches swing one way or the other on the issue, the Word of God won't say anything different."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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It appears that the Indiana legislature will modify Indiana law to prevent the RFRA from being used as a civil defense for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It will also codify that the RFRA doesn't authorize employment or housing discrimination on that basis.
Read the proposed rule change here."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostIt appears that the Indiana legislature will modify Indiana law to prevent the RFRA from being used as a civil defense for discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation and/or gender identity. It will also codify that the RFRA doesn't authorize employment or housing discrimination on that basis.
Read the proposed rule change here.Last edited by RumTumTugger; 04-02-2015, 11:18 AM.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt seems the law in Sam's world says, "Commissioned works are protected by the First Amendment, and no business owner can be forced to create a commissioned work that contradicts their core values. Unless you're a Christian."
In case anyone missed my posting in the thread about the pizza shop owners:
http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christ...hocking-video/
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostThat seems to be the general liberal view.
In case anyone missed my posting in the thread about the pizza shop owners:
http://shoebat.com/2014/12/12/christ...hocking-video/
Contains speech. First Amendment protections. Distinct from "vanilla" services. Dealt with numerous times."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostContains speech. First Amendment protections. Distinct from "vanilla" services. Dealt with numerous times.
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Originally posted by Sparko View Postwrong. You might want to actually check the laws and the situations. Several of the cases where Christian businesses were fined was because they refused to put pro-gay marriage slogans on a cake. And the "anti-discrimination" laws say nothing about "free speech" exceptions or "vanilla" services. They simply say you can't refuse service to protected classes. You might want to stop just making things up and pretending you know what you are talking about. If the first amendment clause on Free Speech was a valid reason not to comply then it would also mean that the First Amendment protection of the free practice of religion would also apply. It doesn't seem to.
In any event, I noted before that I expect the KY case to be reversed on appeal, as it should be. The freedom to not say something has long been protected in the judicial system and there's no legislative or judicial reason that won't continue. Anti-discrimination laws can't trump the 1st Amendment, the right to not speaking is protected by the 1st Amendment, therefore anti-discrimination laws cannot compel someone's speech.
The only way this doesn't make sense is if someone, for sincere or disingenuous purpose, tries to conflate any service or production into being protected "speech." There are only a few "borderline" cases I'm aware of and they mostly deal with whether the person refusing service offers very similar products (e.g., wedding photo "packages")."I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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