Ferguson shooting indictment announcement coming at 9PM EST

[Darth Executor]

Or maybe he would've repented and been rescued by the infinitely merciful, forgiving and powerful God that you profess to believe in. If only he'd been given the chance by not having been killed.

According to witnesses he was spreading the word of Jesus Christ before he died so it doesn't seem to have done him any good.

Edit:

http://www.christiantoday.com/articl...says/39871.htm

The family of Michael Brown have revealed that in the weeks before his death, the slain teenager had a premonition about his killing, and accepted Jesus Christ as his Saviour.

Pastor Charles Ewing is Brown's uncle, and shared the intimate details with reporters on Tuesday.

Ewing told the Associated Press that his nephew accepted the Lord about two weeks before he was killed, and then had an eerie dream. Brown allegedly dreamt of a body covered by a white sheet, and told his family that the entire world would one day know his name.

I think this needs a repost:

[Zymologist]

Technically, his life wasn't in danger when an unarmed Brown was running away, nor was it really in serious danger even when Brown allegedly was moving toward him (he never did get directly up close again after that).



Or maybe he would've repented and been rescued by the infinitely merciful, forgiving and powerful God that you profess to believe in. If only he'd been given the chance by not having been killed.

Do you believe Wilson should have been indicted?

[fm93]

If an officer feels his life is in danger, he has the right to neutralize the threat as expeditiously as possible.

Technically, his life wasn't in danger when an unarmed Brown was running away, nor was it really in serious danger even when Brown allegedly was moving toward him (he never did get directly up close again after that).

You do have to wonder where he would have likely ended up anyway -- either shot by another black person or in prison (likely odds according to the statistics and the common patterns he was following, as well as his upbringing, influence of his parents, etc.).

Or maybe he would've repented and been rescued by the infinitely merciful, forgiving and powerful God that you profess to believe in. If only he'd been given the chance by not having been killed.

[Jedidiah]

No doubt. But that doesn't mean he deserved to die after having done that. As for the second part, I'm fairly certain that with the exception of maybe you and Epoetker, not very many people believe committing robbery warrants death as a punishment.

It is not so much a matter of him deserving to die, as it is a matter of unintended consequences of his life style.

[seanD]

Also, I thought it had been established that Wilson did not know that Brown was a robbery suspect when he shot, which would render the idea of the robbery a complete red herring in these conversations.

Not really. At the very least it shows his state of mind when he was being apprehended. He wasn't the sweet innocent kid he was made out to be before the liquor video became an inconvenience to that scenario.

[KingsGambit]

It almost certainly played a part in Brown's mindset.

To be clear, yes, I suspect it probably did, and that is strong evidence in favor of Wilson's account. But the implication that Wilson knew he was going after a robbery suspect and acted accordingly isn't viable.

[Darth Executor]

Also, I thought it had been established that Wilson did not know that Brown was a robbery suspect when he shot, which would render the idea of the robbery a complete red herring in these conversations.

It almost certainly played a part in Brown's mindset.

[KingsGambit]

Also, I thought it had been established that Wilson did not know that Brown was a robbery suspect when he shot, which would render the idea of the robbery a complete red herring in these conversations.

[KingsGambit]

Do you believe that shooting to kill is never an appropriate alternative? In conversations like this one, it seems to me that the people arguing that the shooting is unjustified are unwilling to even consider the act as justified.

As for shooting to wound...have you ever fired a handgun? If you were going to shoot to wound (like in the case of Brown, who was a big, strong guy), where would you shoot him? How confident are you that you would hit him there, and that it would actually stop him? I have never heard someone in the police or military put forth shooting to wound as a viable option, but I have repeatedly heard them put it forth as an absolutely unreliable option. And these are the guys who are trained in the use of the guns.

No, I do think it is justifiable, certainly in self defense. But if the US happens to be the only country where this happens regularly, it does seem worth looking at if there are any alternative ways to looking at how things go about to try to reduce incidents like this. (I think one example of this is how people are relooking at whether small town police departments really need military tanks.)

To be painfully obvious and clear, I think that Darren Wilson was justified in shooting if he felt his life was in danger. (I also notice that he had never fired a weapon previously in his years on the job.)

[Darth Executor]

No doubt. But that doesn't mean he deserved to die after having done that. As for the second part, I'm fairly certain that with the exception of maybe you and Epoetker, not very many people believe committing robbery warrants death as a punishment.

Trying to steal a cop's gun and shoot him with it, then charging at him does though. The robbery is only a secondary issue, though one that likely pushed him into the confrontation. And if he was willing to go this far for some cigarettes then it could be argued that he probably would've killed someone sooner or later. Better him than his victims.

[seanD]

No doubt. But that doesn't mean he deserved to die after having done that. As for the second part, I'm fairly certain that with the exception of maybe you and Epoetker, not very many people believe committing robbery warrants death as a punishment.

You do have to wonder where he would have likely ended up anyway -- either shot by another black person or in prison (likely odds according to the statistics and the common patterns he was following, as well as his upbringing, influence of his parents, etc.).

[Bill the Cat]

No doubt. But that doesn't mean he deserved to die after having done that. As for the second part, I'm fairly certain that with the exception of maybe you and Epoetker, not very many people believe committing robbery warrants death as a punishment.

If an officer feels his life is in danger, he has the right to neutralize the threat as expeditiously as possible.

[fm93]

Someone could've taught him not to punch a cop and try to steal his gun. Maybe avoid robbing stores. Stuff like that.

No doubt. But that doesn't mean he deserved to die after having done that. As for the second part, I'm fairly certain that with the exception of maybe you and Epoetker, not very many people believe committing robbery warrants death as a punishment.

[fm93]

It does not look like you have read the actual transcripts by your responses. Can you quote the specific portions from the transcripts where Wilson says he was called about the cigarillo robbery, and what parts you find "far-fetched" compared to the investigator, ME, and the CSI testimony of the physical evidence.

http://www.nola.com/news/ferguson/ferguson-all-1.pdf

He said that it wasn't technically his call--he simply happened to overhear it (the call was for other officers) while he was answering his own call about a sick infant. I read the transcript from this Scribd document on Time.com. On page 202:

page 202.jpg

As for what I find far-fetched? That fateful part where he says Brown was charging at him WHILE Wilson was firing his gun. I've heard of cases in which a person is so fueled with adrenaline that he doesn't even feel things like gunshots, but by Wilson's own testimony, Brown's body "jerked or flinched," which indicates to me that he did feel them, and that he would've felt the pain that they immediately bring. So despite feeling this pain, and despite having already been shot at point blank range while struggling with the officer near the car, Brown is still running towards him? Aggression is one thing, but this seems like suicidal aggression that I've only heard of being influenced by PCP, of which there's no evidence that Brown was on at the time.



(I do need to make a slight correction--earlier I said "[Wilson] said that they were moving out of the street when he noticed the cigarillos. It was at that point that he drove back around and cut them off to confront them." The second sentence is accurate, but I misread the first part. What he said was that Brown's friend had answered "We are almost to our destination," and that they then kep walking past the car. When I first read that I interpreted it to mean they were starting to move out of the street, but upon searching through the transcript to find the direct quote, I noticed that I'd missed a line on page 209 in which Wilson says "they never once stopped, never got on the sidewalk, they stayed in the middle of the road.")

[Zymologist]

Interesting, thanks.

The statistics I see racing around social media leave me unconvinced that there are no alternatives to shooting to kill, though I wonder if part of the issue is that guns are so much more prevalent in the US, and that naturally there will be more threats.

Do you believe that shooting to kill is never an appropriate alternative? In conversations like this one, it seems to me that the people arguing that the shooting is unjustified are unwilling to even consider the act as justified.

As for shooting to wound...have you ever fired a handgun? If you were going to shoot to wound (like in the case of Brown, who was a big, strong guy), where would you shoot him? How confident are you that you would hit him there, and that it would actually stop him? I have never heard someone in the police or military put forth shooting to wound as a viable option, but I have repeatedly heard them put it forth as an absolutely unreliable option. And these are the guys who are trained in the use of the guns.