Obama: Doubling Down on Incompetence

[robrecht]

And even if you believe all that, it was a smashing success compared to President cut-n-run. I don't think that Iraq was handled well at all - but I'm going to take any journalist's reporting with a hefty grain of salt.

President cut-n-run? Obama left when the agreement negotiated by Bush and Malaki expired. Malaki would not renew for his own internal political reasons. What would you have recommended? Overthrow Maliki's government and replace it with one that would 'negotiate'?

[Sam]

In the history of American military ventures, I think any time a person wants to say "The Iraq War was a smashing success compared to . . ." they should just stop and seek the nearest bucket of ice water. It's impossible to detail just how extensive and destabilizing the damage from the Iraq War was but it's already proven to be one of the worst, if not the worst, military ventures of American history. Propping up a Sunni-suppressing government in Baghdad in perpetuity was never a realistic option — not in 2002, 2008, 2011 or 2014.

[Cow Poke]

President cut-n-run? Obama left when the agreement negotiated by Bush and Malaki expired. Malaki would not renew for his own internal political reasons.

And Obama just said, in effect, "oh, ok... um... I guess we'll just go home".

What would you have recommended? Overthrow Maliki's government and replace it with one that would 'negotiate'?

Actually do something Presidential! He managed to get OTHER governments to take those bad guys from Gitmo off our hands!

[Sam]

Well, Cow Poke has a point. Obama could have just forcibly re-invaded Iraq and overthrown the elected government for not respecting America enough. That would certainly be presidential, if we're measuring the word by his predecessor.

[Cow Poke]

Well, Cow Poke has a point.

But I strongly suspect you're not gonna get it.

Obama could have just forcibly re-invaded Iraq and overthrown the elected government for not respecting America enough.

What a goofus!

That would certainly be presidential, if we're measuring the word by his predecessor.

Sorry, JimL, I thought this was Sam.

[Sam]

But I strongly suspect you're not gonna get it.



What a goofus!



Sorry, JimL, I thought this was Sam.

By all means, then. What would you propose that Obama should have done to secure a status of forces agreement with what was already showing to be a majority-suppressing minority government in order to continue a war that was deeply unpopular with large majorities of the Iraqi and American populations and had already cost trillions of dollars, keeping in mind that the majority in the Iraqi parliament had made it very clear that a SOF with America was totally DOA?

[Cow Poke]

By all means, then. What would you propose that Obama should have done to secure a status of forces agreement with what was already showing to be a majority-suppressing minority government in order to continue a war that was deeply unpopular with large majorities of the Iraqi and American populations and had already cost trillions of dollars, keeping in mind that the majority in the Iraqi parliament had made it very clear that a SOF with America was totally DOA?

Wow.... you kinda frontloaded that question, Sam. The main reason that a SOFA was "DOA", as you call it, was because State Department lawyers were insisting that immunity be given by the Iraqi Council of Representatives.

Source: TheCable

As recently as August, Maliki's office was discussing allowing 8,000 to 20,000 U.S. troops to remain until next year, Iraqi Ambassador Samir Sumaida'ie said in an interview with The Cable. He told us that there was widespread support in Iraq for such an extension, but the Obama administration was demanding that immunity for U.S. troops be endorsed by the Iraqi Council of Representatives, which was never really possible.

Administration sources and Hill staffers also tell The Cable that the demand that the troop immunity go through the Council of Representatives was a decision made by the State Department lawyers and there were other options available to the administration, such as putting the remaining troops on the embassy's diplomatic rolls, which would automatically give them immunity.

"An obvious fix for troop immunity is to put them all on the diplomatic list; that's done by notification to the Iraqi foreign ministry," said one former senior Hill staffer. "If State says that this requires a treaty or a specific agreement by the Iraqi parliament as opposed to a statement by the Iraqi foreign ministry, it has its head up its • Edited by a Moderator •."

© Copyright Original Source

Source

"GEE, we really WANTED to keep forces in Iraq, but our own #$%&#&* lawyers figured out a way to make it impossible".

[Sam]

Wow.... you kinda frontloaded that question, Sam. The main reason that a SOFA was "DOA", as you call it, was because State Department lawyers were insisting that immunity be given by the Iraqi Council of Representatives.

Source: TheCable

As recently as August, Maliki's office was discussing allowing 8,000 to 20,000 U.S. troops to remain until next year, Iraqi Ambassador Samir Sumaida'ie said in an interview with The Cable. He told us that there was widespread support in Iraq for such an extension, but the Obama administration was demanding that immunity for U.S. troops be endorsed by the Iraqi Council of Representatives, which was never really possible.

Administration sources and Hill staffers also tell The Cable that the demand that the troop immunity go through the Council of Representatives was a decision made by the State Department lawyers and there were other options available to the administration, such as putting the remaining troops on the embassy's diplomatic rolls, which would automatically give them immunity.

"An obvious fix for troop immunity is to put them all on the diplomatic list; that's done by notification to the Iraqi foreign ministry," said one former senior Hill staffer. "If State says that this requires a treaty or a specific agreement by the Iraqi parliament as opposed to a statement by the Iraqi foreign ministry, it has its head up its • Edited by a Moderator •."

© Copyright Original Source

Source

"GEE, we really WANTED to keep forces in Iraq, but our own #$%&#&* lawyers figured out a way to make it impossible".

Putting infantry forces onto a embassy's diplomatic rolls is possibly the dumbest phony "solution" to a status of forces agreement opposed by the majority of a sovereign nation I can think of. What on earth do you think that would solve? And, as the next couple paragraphs of that source clearly shows, there was no way that Iraq's prime minister was going to do that over the heads of parliament. He would have been ousted immediately and the SOF revoked by the new PM.

What else do you have to offer?

[Cow Poke]

Putting infantry forces onto a embassy's diplomatic rolls is possibly the dumbest phony "solution" to a status of forces agreement opposed by the majority of a sovereign nation I can think of. What on earth do you think that would solve? And, as the next couple paragraphs of that source clearly shows, there was no way that Iraq's prime minister was going to do that over the heads of parliament. He would have been ousted immediately and the SOF revoked by the new PM.

What else do you have to offer?

To somebody who's going to defend Obama's incompetence regardless of what anybody else says, I have nothing to offer, Sam.

[Sam]

To somebody who's going to defend Obama's incompetence regardless of what anybody else says, I have nothing to offer, Sam.

Don't sell yourself short on this: you don't have anything to offer at all on this matter. No one really does — a SOF was not going to pass Iraq's government, no matter what. That was clear as day in 2011, just as it's clear today. Apart from delusional Green Lanternism, all the McCain-ite critics have on this point is disingenuity.

[Cow Poke]

SOFA!!! Status of Forces AGREEMENT!

[Cow Poke]

Apart from delusional Green Lanternism....

Since you seem to have learned a new phrase, and use it frequently, I thought you might enjoy this article on Obama as THE GREEN LANTERN!!!!

WHY would anybody think of Obama as The Green Lantern, when he says stuff like....

Source: Linked Article

“I know there are those who don't believe we can do all these things. I understand the skepticism. After all, every four years, candidates from both parties make similar promises, and I expect this year will be no different. … This campaign has to be about reclaiming the meaning of citizenship, restoring our sense of common purpose, and realizing that few obstacles can withstand the power of millions of voices calling for change. … That’s why I'm in this race. Not just to hold an office, but to gather with you to transform a nation.”

© Copyright Original Source

And DON'T FORGET....Obama's nomination victory speech in St. Paul.... "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal"

Source: HuffingtonPost

The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment - this was the time - when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals. Thank you, God Bless you, and may God Bless the United States of America.

© Copyright Original Source

If THAT's not the Green Lantern, what IS IT? And, yes, he was delusional!

[Sam]

Since you seem to have learned a new phrase, and use it frequently, I thought you might enjoy this article on Obama as THE GREEN LANTERN!!!!

WHY would anybody think of Obama as The Green Lantern, when he says stuff like....

Source: Linked Article

“I know there are those who don't believe we can do all these things. I understand the skepticism. After all, every four years, candidates from both parties make similar promises, and I expect this year will be no different. … This campaign has to be about reclaiming the meaning of citizenship, restoring our sense of common purpose, and realizing that few obstacles can withstand the power of millions of voices calling for change. … That’s why I'm in this race. Not just to hold an office, but to gather with you to transform a nation.”

© Copyright Original Source

And DON'T FORGET....Obama's nomination victory speech in St. Paul.... "this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal"

Source: HuffingtonPost

The journey will be difficult. The road will be long. I face this challenge with profound humility, and knowledge of my own limitations. But I also face it with limitless faith in the capacity of the American people. Because if we are willing to work for it, and fight for it, and believe in it, then I am absolutely certain that generations from now, we will be able to look back and tell our children that this was the moment when we began to provide care for the sick and good jobs to the jobless; this was the moment when the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet began to heal; this was the moment when we ended a war and secured our nation and restored our image as the last, best hope on Earth. This was the moment - this was the time - when we came together to remake this great nation so that it may always reflect our very best selves, and our highest ideals. Thank you, God Bless you, and may God Bless the United States of America.

© Copyright Original Source

If THAT's not the Green Lantern, what IS IT? And, yes, he was delusional!

It's not a new phrase at all — you are just giving me ample reason to use it.

And how dare Obama claim that he, by his own will alone, can end a war or improve health care or employment or slow global warming. Oh, wait — he said "we"? Well, that doesn't sound so wrong or delusional, does it? Especially since Republicans, back in those days, largely agreed that AGW was a problem, that the Iraq war needed to end, that health care reform needed to improve access and that the jobless should be aided in their search for jobs.

I remember when Republicans weren't certifiably nuts. They were happier days.

[Cow Poke]

Well, OF COURSE it's not a new phrase --- but it seems to be fairly new to YOU!




Sam, you ARE an Obamanite, through and through!

[Sam]

Well, OF COURSE it's not a new phrase --- but it seems to be fairly new to YOU!





Sam, you ARE an Obamanite, through and through!

And I wear it proudly. He's been a profoundly good president, notwithstanding the unprecedented level of opposition during what will rank as one our worst national crises. As a victim of Obama Derangement Syndrome with a comorbid lack of charity and comprehension, I don't expect we'll agree on much. I guess history will judge which one of us can at least distinguish between the singular and plural tense.*

*I'm allowing this bit of rudeness to stand, in order to perhaps punch through this veil of what I consider to be an almost, if not outright, sinful uncharity that has been persistent on your part when it comes to faceless others. You've got to fix this problem, man. Continue to criticize, sure, but take the effort to criticize intelligently and with a modicum of grace. I assume this is some sort of venting or catharsis but, from my perspective, it's caustic. And while this acid has no effect on the politicians you attack, it probably has an effect on you and definitely affects those interacting with you. I will now go back to trying to make sure I filter out rude or flippant attacks on my part.