Re: Michael Brown

[KingsGambit]

Here's a problem with the makeup of the police department, KG -- there are minimum requirements for service, one of which, on most departments, is at least 2 years of college, and being able to pass the entrance exam. There needs to be a desire on the part of the applicant to be a police officer, he/she has to be free from criminal record, most departments require a drug screen, and the education. MOST black young men and women who so qualify can get jobs that pay more than an entry level police officer.

That would make sense, then.

[Cow Poke]

That would make sense, then.

I have a friend who is a recruiter for the Houston Police Department. He goes to high schools, colleges, trade schools, job fairs... he's BEGGING for minorities -- he's the "diversity" recruiter -- and even has the authority to pay for college for otherwise qualified applicants. He says it's a really tough job to find qualified minorities.

[TimelessTheist]

Namely, we know that an unarmed teenager with no criminal record was shot six times by a police officer and was consequently killed.

He robbed a convenience store...

[fm93]

He robbed a convenience store...

Which the officer didn't know at the time.

[Psychic Missile]

Here's a problem with the makeup of the police department, KG -- there are minimum requirements for service, one of which, on most departments, is at least 2 years of college, and being able to pass the entrance exam. There needs to be a desire on the part of the applicant to be a police officer, he/she has to be free from criminal record, most departments require a drug screen, and the education. MOST black young men and women who so qualify can get jobs that pay more than an entry level police officer.

That would all make sense except for the fact that the Ferguson PD disproportionately targets black people for stop and searches and vehicle stops, even though white people are more likely to be carrying contraband. Because we know that they practice racism in one area, its not far-fetched that they practice it in another.

[Cow Poke]

Which the officer didn't know at the time.

But Brown DID know it.

[Cow Poke]

That would all make sense except for the fact that the Ferguson PD disproportionately targets black people for stop and searches and vehicle stops, even though white people are more likely to be carrying contraband. Because we know that they practice racism in one area, its not far-fetched that they practice it in another.

You have an amazing ability to spew forth opinion that has NOTHING to do with the post it supposedly addresses.

[Psychic Missile]

You have an amazing ability to spew forth opinion that has NOTHING to do with the post it supposedly addresses.

You claimed that the reason the FPD was disproportionately white was because of difficulty finding qualified individuals. I'm claiming that an alternate possibility is that they have a culture of racism that not only could result in discriminatory hiring practices, but ill will from the community that would dissuade people from seeking employment with the FPD.

[Darth Executor]

That would all make sense except for the fact that the Ferguson PD disproportionately targets black people for stop and searches and vehicle stops, even though white people are more likely to be carrying contraband.

I'd imagine they're more likely to look for dealers than merely consumers. Where did you get your statistics from?

[Cow Poke]

You claimed that the reason the FPD was disproportionately white was because of difficulty finding qualified individuals.

Did not. I actually said "Here's a problem with the makeup of the police department"... that's A problem, not THE problem.

I'm claiming that an alternate possibility is that they have a culture of racism that not only could result in discriminatory hiring practices, but ill will from the community that would dissuade people from seeking employment with the FPD.

And that could be ANOTHER possibility.

[Psychic Missile]

I'd imagine they're more likely to look for dealers than merely consumers. Where did you get your statistics from?

They stop and search people who aren't likely to have anything on them because they are looking for dealers? I got the statistics from The Atlantic

Did not. I actually said "Here's a problem with the makeup of the police department"... that's A problem, not THE problem.

And that could be ANOTHER possibility.

Alright, sorry for the mistake then.

[Darth Executor]

They stop and search people who aren't likely to have anything on them because they are looking for dealers?

According to your statistics they stop a lot of people that aren't likely to have anything on them but of the ones they search a majority do, in fact, have something on them.

I got the statistics from The Atlantic

If you look at the detailed statistics most of the black people arrested are due to an outstanding warrant. In other words, they're serial criminals rather than just some guy with a bag of special brownies. It further validates my original suspicion.

Blacks have 20 times the arrest warrants compared to whites even though they're less than twice the population.
Also have 12 times the traffic violations.
9 times the "contraband in view" rate of white people
10 times the drug sniffer dog alerts

Basically, they stop blacks so often because blacks are far more likely to be criminals than whites. Seems fair to me. Shouting racist about it makes racism sound like a good thing.

[Sparko]

But that's precisely the thing! We DON'T know exactly what happened between Brown and the officer. So why are some of you acting as if the officer's account is definitely true? Look at Sparko's posts--he's evidently taking for granted that Brown was indeed rushing forward to attack the officer, when we're hardly in a position to know if that actually happened or not, yet he has the nerve to accuse me of making up my mind without having any more facts. The specific details involving the confrontation are murky at the moment, and of course we need further investigation to clear it up. But we DO already know that either way, an unarmed teenager--someone who had his entire life ahead of him--was shot repeatedly and killed. Regardless of what happened, that's ALWAYS senseless and tragic.

Unless, of course, you think it's perfectly sensible for an unarmed teenager to be left to die in the street about 35 feet away from the cruiser after being shot repeatedly.

No square peg, I was not taking the officers side. I was responding to your post that the facts are in and that it was a senseless shooting. I was pointing out that the facts are not in and if the officer's account is true then he did have a reason to shoot Mr. Brown. That is why I said I supported an INVESTIGATION, and not jumping to conclusions and protesting and looting and so on, before anyone even knows what really happened.

[Cow Poke]

I was pointing out that the facts are not in and if the officer's account is true then he did have a reason to shoot Mr. Brown.

You're a racist! You're calling this poor innocent child "Mr. Brown".

(have you noticed how the attorneys and 'spokespeople' keep calling him a "child"?)

[fm93]

No square peg, I was not taking the officers side. I was responding to your post that the facts are in and that it was a senseless shooting. I was pointing out that the facts are not in and if the officer's account is true then he did have a reason to shoot Mr. Brown. That is why I said I supported an INVESTIGATION, and not jumping to conclusions and protesting and looting and so on, before anyone even knows what really happened.

Didn't say all the facts are in--just the relevant ones. Doesn't matter if the officer was attacked or if he thought Brown was armed. Fact of the matter is that Brown wasn't armed, and it's always, always senseless for an unarmed youth to be shot over and over and killed, even if the officer legitimately needed to defend himself. Brown's intentions are irrelevant. A person who had just graduated high school and was about to attend college, with his entire life in front of him, is now dead. That is a confirmed fact. His mistakes didn't have to cost him his life.