I Am Woman Hear Me Whine!

[seer]

I thought the whole feminist movement was about women becoming more independent, more self-reliant. Yet as we have seen with the recent Hobby Lobby case it seems that women can't even manage to get birth control on their own. Imagine men complaining because the government or their insurance company would not provide free condoms. I grew up with women that braved the depression and WW2. My mother and her sisters could skin and cook any type of game, they had large gardens and canned enough vegetables, jam and fruit to get us through the harshest winter. They could sew and darn almost anything. And they actually loved their husband and children - and they actually remained married until death did the part them. Talk about strong women! And what do we have today? A generation of Sandra Flukes who whine and complain because someone else won't pay for their birth control - You've come a long way baby! Not!

[Psychic Missile]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

[seer]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

Oh please! Women can't afford condoms? I think they can get the pill from Walmart for something like ten dollars a month, they can't manage ten bucks a month? Sad. Or here is a novel idea - you don't want to get pregnant, keep your legs closed. And it is not being self-reliant when you want other people to pay for your stuff. The modern feminists can not hold a candle to the women I grew up with, and that is a fact.

[lilpixieofterror]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

Funny, I've been quite independent and self-reliant for much of my life. How did I manage that one?

[seer]

Funny, I've been quite independent and self-reliant for much of my life. How did I manage that one?

It is amazing. My mom's family had 11 children, and they could have been on what was called the "dole" back then, they were dirt poor. But they refused any help, they had pride, it was just not the right thing to do.

[lilpixieofterror]

It is amazing. My mom's family had 11 children, and they could have been on what was called the "dole" back then, they were dirt poor. But they refused any help, they had pride, it was just not the right thing to do.

I've continued to hold a job since I was 18 and was a rather independent teen too. Although I am general curious why providing all sorts of birth control somehow is 'uplifting women'. I tend to find choosing who I want to be with and not be with, is far more of an uplifting thing than anything else. Besides, it isn't as though Hobby Lobby didn't want to provide birth control, they just didn't want to provide certain ones. The rest they provided before the decision and continue to provide after the decision. Lots of misinformation and flat out lying going on with this story.

[Sparko]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

so you are saying they need help being self-reliant?

[Cow Poke]

If women didn't have to get birth control on their own they could be even more independent and self-reliant.

If they were ENTIRELY on their own, they wouldn't even NEED birth control.

[Juvenal]

If they were ENTIRELY on their own, they wouldn't even NEED birth control.

Yeah, I Lol'd.

[Juvenal]

Oh please! Women can't afford condoms? I think they can get the pill from Walmart for something like ten dollars a month, they can't manage ten bucks a month? Sad. Or here is a novel idea - you don't want to get pregnant, keep your legs closed. And it is not being self-reliant when you want other people to pay for your stuff. The modern feminists can not hold a candle to the women I grew up with, and that is a fact.

Deer seer,

In paying for insurance, they're paying for their birth control.

Arithmetic, it's important.

As ever, Jesse

[seer]

Deer seer,

In paying for insurance, they're paying for their birth control.

Arithmetic, it's important.

As ever, Jesse

To a degree, I have co pays on all my medications, from what I understand birth control in ACA it has to be free, i.e. without co pays. But still, even with insurance the cost is spread to other policy holders (never mind the fact that birth control is not medically necessary). And it is more about the mindset - if a Sandra Fluke, a smart college lass, can't find a way to pay for her own contraception or control her sexual appetite then really we are all screwed. This is what we have come to?

[Juvenal]

To a degree, I have co pays on all my medications, from what I understand birth control in ACA it has to be free, i.e. without co pays. But still, even with insurance the cost is spread to other policy holders (never mind the fact that birth control is not medically necessary). And it is more about the mindset - if a Sandra Fluke, a smart college lass, can't find a way to pay for her own contraception or control her sexual appetite then really we are all screwed. This is what we have come to?

Deer seer,

The Sandra Fluke thing needs to stop. This misrepresentation traces back to comments by Rush Limbaugh, who either never listened to her testimony or found it expedient to create his own fantasy testimony to disparage instead. Her testimony was not about her, not about her own need for birth control, and not about birth control as birth control itself. Read it for yourself:

In Context: Sandra Fluke on contraceptives and women's health

As to medical necessity, again, read her testimony. Ovarian cysts and endometriosis are real women's health issues which can be treated with birth control.

As ever, Jesse

[fm93]

I thought the whole feminist movement was about women becoming more independent, more self-reliant.

It's about making sure women and men are equal.

Yet as we have seen with the recent Hobby Lobby case it seems that women can't even manage to get birth control on their own.

For one thing, some types of birth control like IUDs (which Hobby Lobby refuses to cover) can cost up to $1000, which indeed can be difficult for a woman (or a man buying one for a woman) to obtain on her own, especially if she's poor. Moreover...

Imagine men complaining because the government or their insurance company would not provide free condoms.

...Hobby Lobby DOES cover vasectomies, which indicates that the executives are more than willing to financially assist men with birth control. Yet they aren't willing to do quite the same for women. Ergo, there's an apparent lack of equality here. Hence, feminists see reasons to object.

Furthermore, birth control isn't used solely for the purpose of contraception--it also serves as a form of vital health care. It can reduce the risk of cancers, relieve pain during menstrual periods, fight against endometriosis, etc. Some women believe that as such, they should have the right to pay for it out of the insurance that's part of their compensation package, rather than leaving it up to the discretion of their boss. Quite a few are also annoyed by the fact that Hobby Lobby is willing to cover Viagra for its medical functions for men but not certain forms of birth control for women.

I grew up with women that braved the depression and WW2. My mother and her sisters could skin and cook any type of game, they had large gardens and canned enough vegetables, jam and fruit to get us through the harshest winter. They could sew and darn almost anything. And they actually loved their husband and children - and they actually remained married until death did the part them. Talk about strong women! And what do we have today?

We have today a more diverse group of women who have the strength to do what your mother and sisters did, as well as the freedom to pursue other options such as practicing law, becoming scientists and engineers, founding and running their own companies--things that women in your mother's time were more heavily discouraged or prohibited from doing. That's in large part due to feminism. Why are you apparently so opposed to it, seer? Why do conservatives like you hate freedom so much?

A generation of Sandra Flukes who whine and complain because someone else won't pay for their birth control - You've come a long way baby!

More like a generation of intelligent, strong women who can make their voice heard when perceiving and pointing out injustice and inequality.

Or here is a novel idea - you don't want to get pregnant, keep your legs closed.

Are you also telling men "If you don't want to get anyone pregnant, keep your penis in your pants?" If you're against birth control for women (not saying that you definitely are, but that statement does seem to give me that impression), then you really also ought to be against birth control for men if you value consistency.

[Jorge]

I thought the whole feminist movement was about women becoming more independent, more self-reliant. Yet as we have seen with the recent Hobby Lobby case it seems that women can't even manage to get birth control on their own. Imagine men complaining because the government or their insurance company would not provide free condoms. I grew up with women that braved the depression and WW2. My mother and her sisters could skin and cook any type of game, they had large gardens and canned enough vegetables, jam and fruit to get us through the harshest winter. They could sew and darn almost anything. And they actually loved their husband and children - and they actually remained married until death did the part them. Talk about strong women! And what do we have today? A generation of Sandra Flukes who whine and complain because someone else won't pay for their birth control - You've come a long way baby! Not!

How very, very, VERY true! Well stated, Seer.

You do realize that you are being extremely Politically Incorrect for stating that truth, right?
I mean, it may border on being a Hate Crime. And heaven help you should you run into a
herd of NOW "women" - they'll skin you alive!

You see, the essence of what you're saying is that there should be self-responsibility.
Yet we live in times where the finger very often points away from the person that is
primarily responsible for the situation.

Here, for example, barring the case of forced rape - in which case the man absolutely
should be imprisoned - it is the woman that makes her pregnancy possible. All she has
to do is say "NO" and birth control is guaranteed - no pills or shots needed. But they
don't say "NO" and so they want to make others responsible.
"I play, you pay" -- that is the mindset of these "modern, liberated responsible women".
Needless to say - but I'll say it anyway - a man bears equal responsibility here
and should also not pass that responsibility to others.

Lastly, your point about how women used to be struck home with me.
But they've mutated (Evolution anyone?) into mall-shopping, Girls-night-out, manicure/
pedicure fetish freaks, can't cook or hate cooking, can't clean or don't clean or hate to
clean, I'll break a nail, my-money-is-mine-your-money-is-mine, it's-all-about-me-mindset that,
frankly, provides some explanation why the homosexual population has exploded in the
last 40 years (I'm not saying that this is right or justified - some men are simply terrified
of these "women" and running away from them as fast as their legs will carry 'em!).

Meh ... it's all part of the signs and times that we live in.

Jorge

[seer]

Deer seer,

The Sandra Fluke thing needs to stop. This misrepresentation traces back to comments by Rush Limbaugh, who either never listened to her testimony or found it expedient to create his own fantasy testimony to disparage instead. Her testimony was not about her, not about her own need for birth control, and not about birth control as birth control itself. Read it for yourself:

In Context: Sandra Fluke on contraceptives and women's health

As to medical necessity, again, read her testimony. Ovarian cysts and endometriosis are real women's health issues which can be treated with birth control.

As ever, Jesse

Jesse, I did read her whole testimony on line. It doesn't change a thing. Her testimony is about contraception in general and not just about what would be considered medically necessary (which I wouldn't have a problem with). For the most part birth control is not medically necessary. And I don't think I should pay for your condoms either. I'm sorry it is a sad commentary on our culture and the idea of self-reliance in general.