secret forces in oregon cities, as in DC

[seanD]

If the local governments refuse to do their job and it is federal property that is being attacked then the local politicians really don't have a leg to stand on.

He should let them burn it down. He doesn't have to go the authoritarian route, and it's more negative optics that could be useful to him come election. But he's just not that smart.

[Cow Poke]

He should let them burn it down. He doesn't have to go the authoritarian route, and it's more negative optics that could be useful to him come election. But he's just not that smart.

Yeah, that's part of why I'm torn --- but there are federal employees in there who are afraid for their lives.

[oxmixmudd]

Yeah, that's part of why I'm torn --- but there are federal employees in there who are afraid for their lives.

The national guard is the appropriate organization to use here. An accountable, recognizable force with clear purpose and governance. The use of this secretive and unidentified force without known oversite and sanction by the whole of government is a major abuse of power.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

[Cow Poke]

This is some sort of 'force' that Trump has created and is deploying wherever he thinks it is 'appropriate'.

Trump did not create the US Customs and Border Patrol, or other Federal Forces.

They are not uniformed,

Yes, they are - they are not wearing their parade blues, but camos, which are similar to BDUs - Battle Dress Uniforms - which is the standard Uniform of the Day for such actions.

they do not identify themselves.

They do. The article says "generic police" -- POLICE is all that's required to be "identified" as police.

In a situation like that, an officer is not required to take the time, to the risk of his own life, to pull out his credentials for the arrestee to see.

I think, Jim, you saw an anti-Trump opportunity and jumped on it before understanding it.

[rogue06]

That's it. Here is the Mark O. Hatfield Federal Courthouse in question....

My apologies before hand -- it MAY be that the F word is also here, though partly obscured, but it helps make the point.

[ATTACH=CONFIG]46818[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]46819[/ATTACH]

There are several other photos I cannot post because the F-bomb is predominantly displayed.

If I were a federal employee, and the local authorities were derelict in their duties, and not protecting me, I'd WANT outside help!

And one of those photos you did post had a prominent f-bomb

Don't worry brudder, I fixed it and made it so the images were bigger than postage stamps when you clickinated on it.

[rogue06]

The national guard is the appropriate organization to use here. An accountable, recognizable force with clear purpose and governance. The use of this secretive and unidentified force without known oversite and sanction by the whole of government is a major abuse of power.

"Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it."

No. Due to the Posse Comitatus Act the National Guard does not have law enforcement authority. While they do have the authority to support and assist domestic law enforcement they do not have arrest and detention powers.

[oxmixmudd]

Trump did not create the US Customs and Border Patrol, or other Federal Forces.



Yes, they are - they are not wearing their parade blues, but camos, which are similar to BDUs - Battle Dress Uniforms - which is the standard Uniform of the Day for such actions.



They do. The article says "generic police" -- POLICE is all that's required to be "identified" as police.

In a situation like that, an officer is not required to take the time, to the risk of his own life, to pull out his credentials for the arrestee to see.

I think, Jim, you saw an anti-Trump opportunity and jumped on it before understanding it.

No CP. This force is secretive, not publically announced, they are sent in there without public acknowledgement or the permission of local governments.

But I wash my hand of your foolhardy ignorance. We can not allow this sort of thing. If not Trump, someone else. This is just another step towards the destruction of the freedoms we hold dear, and it can not be allowed to continue.

[mikewhitney]

We have no clear choices when a state is going rogue on us and allowing anarchy to rule. The disruptions are geared toward undoing the stability of the nation. Like Cow Poke, I am for state rights. However, I am also for protecting the country as a whole. A revolution promoted by people with Marxist training is not one of my desires.

There is sort of an approach that may be valid here. The States are required to maintain a republican form of government. If they veer from that, they have violated the Constitution and may be reasonably (but cautiously) subject to intervention by the united States. Beyond that, the Constitution and country have been able to survive momentary violations of the Constitution (or severe enduring ones that go on for long periods of time). But does the general population even know enough of the Constitution to be of value right now?

[Cow Poke]

And one of those photos you did post had a prominent f-bomb

Don't worry brudder, I fixed it and made it so the images were bigger than postage stamps when you clickinated on it.

Thanks - there are a lot of colors there, and my concern was that I wasn't seeing.... in some of the other photos I chose not to use, the F-bomb was WAY more prominent.

These are the thugs that Portland authorities are caving in to, and Federal forces which to protect.

But, it's another opportunity to attack Trump, so....

[rogue06]

We have no clear choices when a state is going rogue on us...

This is about me isn't it?

[Cow Poke]

No CP. This force is secretive, not publically announced,

Perhaps they should have called ahead and made appointments?

they are sent in there without public acknowledgement or the permission of local governments.

To protect Federal property that the local governments have failed to protect, because they are caving to the anti-police crowd.

But I wash my hand of your foolhardy ignorance.

And I pray that one day you man regain even some semblance of sanity.

We can not allow this sort of thing.

But in your OrangeManBad Rage, you're perfectly OK with local "authorities" caving to anarchists and thugs and allowing police officers to be attacked and killed?

Again, I hate that this has happened, but if the local authorities had been doing THEIR job, instead of ceding authority to MOB RULE....

If not Trump, someone else. This is just another step towards the destruction of the freedoms we hold dear, and it can not be allowed to continue.

And you're so full of hate for Trump that you can't see why this happened in the first place.

[oxmixmudd]

Thanks - there are a lot of colors there, and my concern was that I wasn't seeing.... in some of the other photos I chose not to use, the F-bomb was WAY more prominent.

These are the thugs that Portland authorities are caving in to, and Federal forces which to protect.

But, it's another opportunity to attack Trump, so....

No CP. The issue is the use of secretive forces to accomplish that goal. That is a very bad thing, history has seen the use of forces like that over and over by authoritarian regimes to erode freedoms and suppress dissent. And it would not matter who takes the step to begin doing it, it IS a clear and present danger to the freedoms we enjoy. A secretive police force suppressing freedom of speech.

Wake up!

[Cow Poke]

No CP.

Yes, Jim.

The issue is the use of secretive forces to accomplish that goal.

They are not "secret forces" just because they didn't carry a banner with their agency's logo on it.

That is a very bad thing, history has seen the use of forces like that over and over by authoritarian regimes to erode freedoms and suppress dissent. And it would not matter who takes the step to begin doing it, it IS a clear and present danger to the freedoms we enjoy. A secretive police force suppressing freedom of speech.

Have you LOOKED AT THE PICTURES of what the "local authorities" have allowed the anarchists to do, Jim? Are you BLIND to that?
Do you realize there are federal employees who work in that courthouse who are afraid for their lives, and are NOT being protected the local "authorities?

And, rather than send in federal POLICE, you want to send in the MILITARY?

Wake up!

Get Help!

[Ronson]

This is beyond the pale - and really quite unnerving. We do not do this sort of thing in the US, and yet, Trump is doing it. The US attorney in Oregon has launched an investigation. These unidentified (presumably legitimate) law enforcement agents have been seen arresting peaceful protestors and hauling them off in SUV's.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/18/us/po...ies/index.html

So this is not just a strange anomalous thing that showed up in DC during the Floyd protests. This is some sort of 'force' that Trump has created and is deploying wherever he thinks it is 'appropriate'. They are not uniformed, they do not identify themselves.

I truly hope those posting here in favor of Trump can recognize the very real and present danger of secret, heavily armed and unidentified forces deployed at the behest of the president against the wishes of state governments across the United States.

This CNN article has more spin than a whirling dervish (and is the reason why I hate CNN).

First, right out of the gate, it spins: "The US Attorney for the Oregon District on Friday requested an investigation into masked, camouflaged federal authorities without identification badges who are arresting protesters in Portland."

The only instance evidenced is here is where it states: Merkley also tweeted one video of such an arrest showing two masked, camouflaged individuals with generic "police" patches, detain a person dressed in a black outfit and place them in an unmarked van before driving away.

1) Everyone is wearing "masks" these days, so nothing unusual there
2) "camouflaged" = fatigues, so nothing unusual there
3) "police patches" = identification, so they aren't "without identification badges" as CNN stated
4) and a "person dressed in a black outfit" = antifa, he didn't look at all like a protester
The only part I agree is odd is the vehicle. It's unusual to see soldiers driving around in an umarked KIA, but I'm sure there is an explanation for it - although I doubt CNN was interested enough to investigate it.

One possible explanation is the video was staged. It isn't too difficult to get old military fatigues and appear as soldiers. It is more difficult to get a military vehicle. And what we have here are uniforms but no official vehicle. Someone orchestrating a video for political purposes, maybe? All the participants look like they're acting too.

One thing to keep in mind is that we are a modern nation with massive amounts of communication. People don't just disappear here - this isn't Backwaterland. If this guy on the street vanished his family would be screaming, and it would be all over social media and in the news.

So again, I see people who just absolutely hate Trump clutching at any straws that are thrown out there. Groups like CNN and New York Times will oblige you by spinning events to suit their narratives.

[Ronson]

I'm pretty sure this view would be the complete opposite if it was for fighting the big bad covid boogieman. In fact, weren't you all for Trump using executive power in order to enforce the lock-downs? I know carp sure was.

I recall your observant skepticism from another thread. Does the Senator's video look staged to you? A couple of things look phony to me.