The real reason mobs across the country are tearing down American monuments

[RumTumTugger]

I've only heard of him twice, first time was when a liberal blogger talked about this and denounced what he said. Secondly this mention by Tucker Carlson. I don't think he's anywhere near as big as Tucker Carlson wants him to be.

wrong King Leonhard we are not talking about Rep King but about Shaun King the white activist who pretended to be a black man and Part of the BLM movement.

[Leonhard]

wrong King Leonhard we are not talking about Rep King but about Shaun King the white activist who pretended to be a black man and Part of the BLM movement.

Sounds like an even more irrelevant person then, who is trying to make himself irrelevant by outraging conservatives.

[rogue06]

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For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

What a devastating rebuttal. I am completely defeated. The way you marshaled your evidence and succinctly listed the facts in favor of your argument has left me little choice but to concede.

[whag]

For the sarcastically impaired the following is said in jest

What a devastating rebuttal. I am completely defeated. The way you marshaled your evidence and succinctly listed the facts in favor of your argument has left me little choice but to concede.

Funny you thought a meme ripped from your FB feed was some kind of rational argument.

[rogue06]

Black lives matters is a Marxist take over as the founder admits...

That reminded me of something I posted a few years back

Apparently there is what can be called a disturbing fashion trend showing up at Black Lives Matters (BLM) protests, namely shirts and hoodies with the caption "Assata Taught Me" prominently displayed.

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The last one was at the University of California at Berkeley where protesters demanded that the school's Barrows Hall be renamed in honor of Assata Shakur (the Assata referred to on the shirts and hoodies).

So who exactly is Assata Shakur?

After changing her name from Joanne Chesimard and becoming a member of the militant Black Panther Party (BPP) and Black Liberation Army (BLA) she was involved in the murder of New Jersey State Trooper named Werner Foerster during a shootout in 1973 where he was slain with his own gun. After being found guilty of Murder 1 and seven other felonies and sentenced to prison she was broken out by armed members of the BLA who took hostages and stole a van. She remained in hiding for nearly a decade before fleeing to Cuba where she still lives today.

So this cop killer is the one that members of BLM says they are learning from. They view her as a hero and want buildings named in her honor.

And it isn't just clothing where BLM pays homage to Assata Shakur. Vanessa De Luca, the Editor-in-Chief of Essence magazine (a monthly magazine that bills iself as being for African-American women), interviewed two of the co-founders of BLM, Patrisse Cullors and Opal Tometi where they stated that they invoke Assata Shakur's name and quote her at every event they hold. The quote that they recite comes from a letter written by Assata Shakur where she declares herself a "Black revolutionary" who "declared war on the rich who prosper on our poverty, the politicians who lie to us with smiling faces, and all the mindless, heart-less robots who protect them and their property."

And her violent actions show exactly what she meant by "declar[ing] war." Murder, robbery, kidnappings.

So, to be clear here, it isn't just some outliers on the extreme fringe here but the co-founders of BLM that hold up a cop-killer as a role model to be emulated. "Assata Taught Me."

That post brought forth claims that she was just some innocent lamb caught up in a bad situation because her "expert witnesses" testified that she never fired a shot.

My responses

The testimony was that Foerster was shot by Shakur at the same time Harper shot her thus any wounds she took would not have prevented her from shooting anyone before she was hit although they might have prevented her from continuing to fire. Harper retracted claims that she had also shot him.

And as you should know don't have to be the one to pull the trigger to be convicted of murder so even if she wasn't actually the one doing the shooting she was still an accomplice to murder which carries a life sentence (which is what she got). All the evidence indicates that the BLA members, possibly including Shakur herself, were the ones to open fire when Foerster announced that he saw a firearm in the car. That she was far from an innocent by-stander who just happened to be in the car when the shoot-out took place is demonstrated by the fact she was found with several magazines and ammo in her shoulder bag.

The prosecution never bothered to put up experts to refute the doctors hired by the defense because they didn't have to (she was convicted of being an accomplice to murder not being the actual triggerman), so Shakur's supporters have acted like their claims were somehow irrefutable. That is not the case. IIRC, at least one of the "experts" that the defense used would later be exposed to be a "hired gun" who would pretty much say whatever he was hired to say (this has actually been a problem among forensic experts used by both prosecutors and the defense for many years and it appears that only recently is there any effort being taken to remedy this).

And I don't know of many people who walk around with magazines and ammo who aren't also carrying a firearm to put them in. Sure it some times happens when someone picks up an old suitcase or something but given Shakur's history I don't think that even you believe that this was the case.

And as an aside I should note that there are several easy ways to fool tests that check for gunpowder residue (no, I'm not going to describe them) which is why investigators today often check more than the hands if they suspect that someone used one of them since the shooter generally only thinks about eliminating traces on the hands. And not so coincidentally the BLA was known to teach its members about the most widely known one.

She was convicted of being an accessory to murder of which there really was no contradictory evidence. The contradictions involved were over whether or not she was one of the actual triggermen -- but that was not what she was convicted for.

Think of it this way ... if someone is the getaway driver in an armed robbery in which someone is shot and killed it does not matter whether or not they were carrying a firearm much less shot someone. It does not matter if they even knew whether or not anyone who committed the actual robbery was even armed. It does not matter if they weren't even inside the building where the robbery took place. It does not matter if all the participants swore that "nobody will get hurt." If they're involved they are also responsible for what takes place.

While one may argue over whether this is fair is another discussion, but it seems pretty obvious that Shakur knew what was going down and was involved up to her neck in it. She admitted knowing that others in the car were armed. She was carrying magazines and bullets strongly indicating that she was armed as well. Nobody seriously contests the fact that it was the BLA members who opened fire. She is guilty. There was no inversion of the how the burden of proof works.

[seer]

I'm supposed to be scared of that?

Well given how much power this Marxist group is gaining, yes this anti-american movement concerns me. Of course you don't care in lily white Denmark...

[Leonhard]

Well given how much power this Marxist group is gaining, yes this anti-american movement concerns me.

Marxism is a largely empty term unless you specify what is meant. If they're classical marxists, I see no cause for alarm. I'm rather partial to Marx's writings as well, even if I part ways with him on several obvious points. He's highly influential writer that is worth reading and studying.

[rogue06]

Marxism is a largely empty term unless you specify what is meant. If they're classical marxists, I see no cause for alarm. I'm rather partial to Marx's writings as well, even if I part ways with him on several obvious points. He's highly influential writer that is worth reading and studying.

I'll agree with the last sentence which is why, back in the day I read The Communist Manifesto (didn't get around to Das Kapital) as well as Mao's Little Red Book.

IMHBAO the few good points Marx made are no longer relevant here in the West. Things have changed so drastically since his time that most of what he says is as irrelevant as a lecture on making buggy whips.

[seanD]

Marxism is a largely empty term unless you specify what is meant. If they're classical marxists, I see no cause for alarm. I'm rather partial to Marx's writings as well, even if I part ways with him on several obvious points. He's highly influential writer that is worth reading and studying.

Think the New Left. Only you can throw out anti-war and pro-first amendment. These no longer apply to this movement, in fact, they've pretty much reversed -- i.e. if you oppose military campaigns in the middle east, you're a "Russia/Putin asset," and if you're pro-first amendment, you're racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc...

[Leonhard]

I'll agree with the last sentence which is why, back in the day I read The Communist Manifesto (didn't get around to Das Kapital) as well as Mao's Little Red Book.

IMHBAO the few good points Marx made are no longer relevant here in the West. Things have changed so drastically since his time that most of what he says is as irrelevant as a lecture on making buggy whips.

I agree with most things said here, though like Darwin, Marx inspired a lot of writers who came after him. Mao was not the only one. There's a lot of people who took up his ideas. Many of those are worth reading, if only because you want to argue against them. Several of those are quite peaceful. None of my marxist friends, who are avowed marxists, would call for violent revolution. At best they're anarchists who want to form small social communes, and change society from within it. Basically.

[Leonhard]

Think the New Left. Only you can throw out anti-war and pro-first amendment. These no longer apply to this movement, in fact, they've pretty much reversed -- i.e. if you oppose military campaigns in the middle east, you're a "Russia/Putin asset," and if you're pro-first amendment, you're racist, sexist, homophobe, transphobe, etc...

The "anti-anti-war" thing you're talking about might be an American phenomenon, that I don't keep track of, though the liberal american writers I know of aren't fond of US Interventionism. As for the latter... are you talking about hate crime laws?

[seanD]

The "anti-anti-war" thing you're talking about might be an American phenomenon, that I don't keep track of, though the liberal american writers I know of aren't fond of US Interventionism. As for the latter... are you talking about hate crime laws?

I don't think it's an American phenomenon because social media connects this movement across the western world. If you're anti-war, you will now be dubbed a Russian asset by the left. This had already started to happen under Obama's admin towards any opposition against Syrian military intervention, and then it amplified with Trump and Russiagate (though I mainly attribute that ploy to the intelligence community). And I'm talking about "cancel culture." You say anything deemed as "hate speech" you will get attacked (sometimes physically), ostracized, fired, or cancelled. In case you're unaware of this trend, the woman that wrote Harry Potter is an exemplification of this trend (she's obviously more visible because of her notoriety).

[Whateverman]

According to Tucker Calson,:

Clip: "Never in American history have they been more emboldened than they are now. Just this Monday afternoon, around lunchtime, an activist called Shaun King issued the following demand on Twitter: "All murals and stained glass windows of white Jesus and his European mother and their white friends should also come down. They are a gross form of white supremacy created as tools of oppression, racist propaganda. They should all come down."

Clip: "In Nashville, they pulled down a statue of a former U.S. senator. Same in Albany. In Oregon, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were torn down. In San Francisco, the mob demolished statues of Ulysses S. Grant, Junipero Serra, and Francis Scott Key. On the pedestal of the Key monument, they spray-painted, "Kill the colonizers" and "Kill whitey," just in case you missed the point."

Clip: "Before you dismiss that idea as absurd, the rantings of some crank on social media, keep in mind that Shaun King is the most famous Black Lives Matter leader in this country. Black Lives Matter is now more popular than either major political party. So, don't be surprised when they come for your church. Why wouldn't they? No one is stopping them.

The forces of destruction have grand ambitions. It's not just about the Teddy Roosevelt statue. They plan to rule this country. What will happen if they do?"

Any show 9pm or later on a station that wants to be seen as a news network - isn't news. At best it's opinion.

At best.

[rogue06]

I agree with most things said here, though like Darwin, Marx inspired a lot of writers who came after him. Mao was not the only one. There's a lot of people who took up his ideas. Many of those are worth reading, if only because you want to argue against them. Several of those are quite peaceful. None of my marxist friends, who are avowed marxists, would call for violent revolution. At best they're anarchists who want to form small social communes, and change society from within it. Basically.

I also read Che Guevara's Motorcycle Diaries, which was largely forgettable although his comments about blacks remaining ethnically pure by never bathing and that they were largely drunks who liked to party all the time did make an impression.

[Starlight]

...back in the day I read The Communist Manifesto... IMHBAO the few good points Marx made are no longer relevant here in the West.

I find it interesting how many of the major ideas he proposes in that work are now implemented universally by all Western countries. e.g. Progressive income taxes. The majority of his at-the-time-radical suggestions are taken for granted today as "normal" even by conservatives.

To an extent I would agree his writings are no longer applicable... because he won, the bulk of his ideas were proven correct and are used by all. To that extent, we don't need to revisit those 'novel' ideas that we now take for granted.

Two major themes pervade his writings: A desire for more democracy, and a desire for stronger workers rights / a concern that they are being exploited by their employers. The first is now present in every Western country to a greater or lesser extent. But the second one is still very relevant today and still needs work still. The West had a tolerable solution for it for a time: workers unions. But those are all but gone now in most countries. Many Marxists today point to the potential of Worker Cooperatives, where businesses are owned by their workers, as being a potential fix for that exploitation, where employees are empowered by bringing democracy into the workplace (thus uniting Marx's two primary themes) and thereby breaking the problematic separation of Owner vs Employee that leads to the former exploiting the latter due to their differing interests. I think most people would agree that the full potential of Worker Co-ops has yet to be fully explored by any Western country (though they are present in small amounts).