Trump proposes injecting people with disinfectant to kill Coronavirus

[DesertBerean]

Lip reading is largely a myth. I've heard it called "lip-guessing". The idea that someone with no access to sound can understand you perfectly just based on your lip movements only happens in the movies.

I mean, I suppose a see through mask is a compassionate idea, but as someone who knows sign language and has been actively involved in the Deaf community for over a decade, it just strikes me as a little odd since most deaf people really wouldn't benefit from it. I actually thought the story was satire at first.

Given your involvement stated above, I am even more disappointed by your comments implying ALL deaf sign. You are probably aware that within the community there is a difference made between Deaf culture and just hard of hearing. Those outside the community don't know that as a rule.

[Charles]

[...]
Seems to me that a lot of Christians here have been applying a separate set of standards for Trump than for anyone else over the last few years.

And in the back of my mind I hear Bob Dylan singing

"... But you're gonna have to serve somebody, yes
Indeed you're gonna have to serve somebody..."

I guess most of us remember how the rest of it goes.

The funny thing is that because of the "standards" they apply for Trump it is a little hard to see how it makes much sense for them to call themselves Christians.

[Sparko]

You are correct...expressions play a bigger part in sign language than in spoken.

Is lip reading a real thing?

I have tinitus, a ringing in my ears, so sometimes I have a hard time hearing in noisy environments, I find watching a persons lips helps me understand what they are saying, even though I can't read lips.

[MaxVel]

Is lip reading a real thing?

George H.W. Bush thought so. But then he was a Republican, therefore evil, therefore wrong about everything.

[Mountain Man]

I notice even deaf people will mouth words and make faces when signing. And even if they don't read lips, they can see expressions. So I think the transparent mask is a well meaning attempt at helping deaf people. The problem I have is that it also makes the mask a lot harder to breath through.

Those are known as non-manual grammatical signals, and, yes, they are an important part of the language (they are similar to voice inflection for spoken languages), but signers can communicate just fine even with their faces covered. I suppose it would be similar to speaking with someone who's voice is muffled. Their speech may not be perfectly clear, but you can still communicate effectively.

[Mountain Man]

Is lip reading a real thing?

I have tinitus, a ringing in my ears, so sometimes I have a hard time hearing in noisy environments, I find watching a persons lips helps me understand what they are saying, even though I can't read lips.

If you can catch some of words then you can use context to fill in the blanks. That's essentially what "lip reading" is.

[DesertBerean]

Is lip reading a real thing?

I have tinitus, a ringing in my ears, so sometimes I have a hard time hearing in noisy environments, I find watching a persons lips helps me understand what they are saying, even though I can't read lips.

Lip reading is indeed a real thing. I was raised in it. And people do instinctively look at the lips when they can't hear. The discipline is in reading WITHIN context. Which can be very challenging.

Just yesterday I saw a segment on The Daily Moth about masks and sign language. It was pretty funny. The point was, sign language depends highly on expressions AND lip movement and masks DO get in the way of that.

(Daily Moth is signed news and other stuff. Captioning is provided)

[Mountain Man]

No they do not ALL use sign language! I am insulted by your ignorant statement.

I was not educated to use sign language and so it is not my first language. And not all deaf people are born that way! Many go deaf because of age or accident or disease later in life! Not all acquire proficiency in sign language!

Given your involvement stated above, I am even more disappointed by your comments implying ALL deaf sign. You are probably aware that within the community there is a difference made between Deaf culture and just hard of hearing. Those outside the community don't know that as a rule.

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, but thank you for being insulted on behalf of other people.

I'll tell you what annoys me is when ignorant hearing people find out my son is deaf, and their first reaction is to say, "I'm sorry," to which I ask, "Why are you apologizing?" (they never know how to respond to that ), and their second question is to ask if he reads lips. I almost always politely refrain from rolling my eyes at them.

[Sparko]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, but thank you for being insulted on behalf of other people.

I'll tell you what annoys me is when ignorant hearing people find out my son is deaf, and their first reaction is to say, "I'm sorry," to which I ask, "Why are you apologizing?" (they never know how to respond to that ), and their second question is to ask if he reads lips. I almost always politely refrain from rolling my eyes at them.

DB is deaf, MM.

[Mountain Man]

The point was, sign language depends highly on expressions AND lip movement and masks DO get in the way of that.

It's important, yes, but I think you're exaggerating the degree to which it is necessary for effective communication. I know deaf people who make few and in some cases NO expressions when they sign. It's like any language: there's a way you're "supposed" to speak, and then there's how people actually speak. To a linguist, there's no such thing as incorrect grammar, because language is defined entirely by how people use it.

[DesertBerean]

You're not telling me anything I don't already know, but thank you for being insulted on behalf of other people.

I'll tell you what annoys me is when ignorant hearing people find out my son is deaf, and their first reaction is to say, "I'm sorry," to which I ask, "Why are you apologizing?" (they never know how to respond to that ), and their second question is to ask if he reads lips. I almost always politely refrain from rolling my eyes at them.

Your initial statement was "But deaf people sign". That is NOT an accurate representation unless you were referring to Deaf (big D) people rather than people who in general don't hear for whatever reason. Big difference. That is what I take exception to. On MY behalf as well as others. I was born deaf. At that time the educational philosophy was to teach us spoken methods rather than sign. Sign langauge was being phased in when I left that school.

Your son is lucky to have you as his dad. Many deaf kids don't even have that kind of support.

[Mountain Man]

Your initial statement was "But deaf people sign". That is NOT an accurate representation unless you were referring to Deaf (big D) people rather than people who in general don't hear for whatever reason. Big difference. That is what I take exception to. On MY behalf as well as others. I was born deaf. At that time the educational philosophy was to teach us spoken methods rather than sign. Sign langauge was being phased in when I left that school.

Your son is lucky to have you as his dad. Many deaf kids don't even have that kind of support.

Whenever I see the word "deaf", I tend to associate it with the community that I'm involved with which is a mixture of deaf and hard of hearing, all of whom are proficient signers. I actually don't know any deaf people who don't sign, but I don't suppose they would be part of a community that does. I also know that many people outside of the community (including journalists) think that "deaf", "Deaf", "hard of hearing", and "hearing impaired" are synonyms and refer to someone like Linda from Sesame Street who is profoundly deaf and fluent in ASL.

Which is to say that I was just speaking from my own experience, and no offense was intended.

[DesertBerean]

Whenever I see the word "deaf", I tend to associate it with the community that I'm involved with which is a mixture of deaf and hard of hearing, all of whom are proficient signers. I actually don't know any deaf people who don't sign, but I don't suppose they would be part of a community that does. I also know that many people outside of the community (including journalists) think that "deaf", "Deaf", "hard of hearing", and "hearing impaired" are synonyms and refer to someone like Linda from Sesame Street who is profoundly deaf and fluent in ASL.

Which is to say that I was just speaking from my own experience, and no offense was intended.

Apology accepted. Hug your kid for me. Raise him well.

[Mountain Man]

Apology accepted. Hug your kid for me. Raise him well.

An interpreter I worked with once told me, "Do you realize that your son will never remember a time when he couldn't communicate with his parents?" It nearly brought tears to my eyes.

[Mountain Man]

Very hard to be understood speaking into a microphone wearing a mask. They are not acoustically transparent.

I see, so you charitably interpret Schiff's conduct but not Trump's.