Half of all cases happening in care homes

[simplicio]

I'll ignore the other tripe you posted, but this part screams "false"....



FOUR of the six nursing homes I am in REGULARLY do not even have a hint of this "stench". They have sufficient staff to manage the residents, and procedures to efficiently and effictively deal with issue.

But I assert that it is most likely that those four homes do not take in all comers, they select out the convenient ones.

I do have a question, though. Between the ones carrying out the Lord's calling and those low quality employees which you noted, how to you discern the difference?

I take it that you believe that those who have the calling to work with the elderly, in a nursing home setting, are able to find work elsewhere, and are not called because they cannot work anywhere else in health care.

[simplicio]

If they are truly intensive care nursing homes...is that a surprise? They tend to be populated by the most sick. I'd love to see the mortality statistics for patients entering a hospital ICU.

https://www.physiciansweekly.com/mor...n-ventilators/

This deals with the ones on ventilators.

[simplicio]

Also, "old people smell" is a thing.

From the article:

While some may find the scent unpleasant, many others connect it with fond memories of their grandparents and parents. We should continue to promote open discussion about age-related changes like nonenal to minimize the stigma surrounding aging

The scent exists, and the fact is that many do find the natural effects of aging to be unpleasant.

[simplicio]

Did you notice the shift in how nursing home employees were described? Starting with post 11, the descriptions were negative. By post 80 something, the descriptors of nursing home employees used positive connotations.

It moved from low quality and incompetent to a higher calling.

[Cow Poke]

But I assert that it is most likely that those four homes do not take in all comers...

You can assert all you want - you seem to be gifted at being wrong.

[Cow Poke]

Did you notice the shift...

Did you notice that NOBODY is buying your nutter perversions?

[simplicio]

Did you notice that NOBODY is buying your nutter perversions?

perhaps you could explain to the board, and to me, just how you are able to discern a "calling".

A patient in a nursing home may have one to three hours of hands on care, the worker may have a dozen or more patients to care for; with the staffing shortages stemming from the epidemic, direct patient care is most likely well below one hour. Just how do you differentiate the care given by the one with a calling and the one whose quality suggests that they are the cheapest which can be had?

And yes, I noticed that your counter example of your daughter who is a hospice nurse is from the segment noted for more direct and individualized care.

Is the one who has the calling competent to get a real job in health care?

Do you think that capitalism works in the health care field? I do, but I noticed that much of the critique of the long term care industry focused on the immorality of greed of the owners.

[Cow Poke]

perhaps you could explain to the board....

If somebody is truly interested and asks, I'll be happy to respond.

[simplicio]

If somebody is truly interested and asks, I'll be happy to respond.

I am interested, and am curious if you can answer it at all, and also if you can place that into the context of your earlier posts, as well as Sparko's posts.

[Cow Poke]

I am interested....

I believe you are interested in a battle.

[Charles]

I believe you are interested in a battle.

A convenient belief in this case once again freeing you from the trouble of explaining...

[carpedm9587]

If you were any good you'd be working elsewhere. I see that as a sweeping indictment. And something said, but if it was not meant he has not said so, nor tried to explain its context.

I have been in the dingy corridors of a facility which gets insufficient funding. But some of them do a herculean service, and I have also heard the comments about the poor care given in a hospital which has excellent patient outcomes. We are so used to disparaging the work done in nursing homes that the claims are never really examined, and pass as unremarkable. (worms in food? Ever eaten in a restaurant after hearing the horror stories whether true or not?)

A cursory walk through a home seldom gives an accurate picture of the care done, "the quality of the employees indicates a 'let's hire the cheapest labor we can get away with'". But how can you tell exactly? The stench is always in the air and is an (almost) unavoidable consequence of caring for a certain type of patients, whether patient care is kept up with or let slide. I read a study that the most important factor in perception of a facility was its brick and mortar, and was independent of the actual quality. So the community hospital which has a seventy year old building and a decrepit parking lot will have poor perception of the quality; and conversely the facility with nice modern building has a good perception regardless of the care (second in importance was an appealing entrance with a smiling receptionist). Patient outcomes are pretty much irrelevant to perceptions.

If the person at the end of life gets complications, its the nursing home's fault (post 14). Sparko is able to parse and use logic differently if the topic is trump. Its not because people at the end get more complications: the body breaks down, and that is G-d's design.

Many Christians have expressed their views on social justice initiatives. Many of the employees are working poor, who as a group do face significant problems which does affect work and attendance.

I have read back through the thread multiple times. I do not think CP meant it, in spite of Chrawnus' post, but he has not retracted it or explained it, rather he indirectly expanded on it. Notice the pattern starting at post 11: One poster dumps on a group, the next poster tops it. It is about a topic which I feel is about the extension of pro life from just abortion. Human nature, which I attribute to the divine plan, includes the elder care and all that entails. Euthanasia is as important as abortion, and while neither Sparko and CP are not pro-euthanasia, their criticism of nursing homes just happens to substantiate the reasons for euthanasia, namely that old people are difficult to care for.

Sim - do you truly think that there does not exist a body of people working for minimum wage (or not much more) in elder care facilities that would NOT being working elsewhere if they were actually skilled? They exist all over the place. My elderly mother used to be the charge nurse in a local nursing home and would come home continually griping about the low pay the new hires were getting, especially nurses aids, and the "I don't care" type of employee it would attract. She was constantly trying to weed out the bad apples. I read CP's post as acknowledging and lamenting the existence of this dynamic - not claiming everyone in any given nursing home was operating in that mode.

Did I already say "last word?" I lost track. In any event...this is my last word on this issue.

[carpedm9587]

I actually didn't think it should be necessary to point out that 'bad apples' are, indeed, the minority. You are 'receiving' the totality of my messaging pretty much spot on with what I intended.

EGGzackly!

Absolutely not. In my Christian experience, one's "calling" is not necessarily his occupation, but it's great when both are one in the same. While I ENJOY doing the Nursing Home Ministry, I have a guy in my church who thrives on it - loves it - he's the one who does most of the coordinating with other Churches, and volunteers to fill in when one of them can't make it. It's is "calling".

You're hitting it on the head. There are some facilities where it seems that money is the major motivator, and they will operate as absolutely 'on the cheap' as they can to focus on the "bottom line". It's strange, because other facilities seem to understand that paradox that if they focus on patient care, and the best facilities and personnel they can afford, the money will come.

Simp seems to have the extraordinary 'gift' to drive my 'enemies' (used VERY generically, and certainly not in your case) to defend me. It's always a good sign that one is way off base.

He's also making me realize what an incredibly sensible guy Ox is.

I've been watching the ongoing war between you and Jim. I keep wondering who is going to be the first to bury the hatchet. I can tell you, from the outside looking in, I see two people who I generally respect and admire (though I disagree with them on a fairly regular basis - about different things). It's a shame you guys can't find that in each other.

[carpedm9587]

I thought I'd elaborate on this, since you seem far more interested in understanding than attacking. I gave ONE example of my own daughter, because she is an excellent example of somebody who works in health care, and can do just about anything (she has multiple endorsements and specialties) as a nurse, but recognized that labor and delivery was something she LIKED to do, but Hospice is something she feels CALLED to do.

Her first degree was in criminal justice, because she wanted to be in law enforcement like her dad, but (I cover this elsewhere) she went through the very tragic death of her first husband to pancreatic cancer. He was in Hospice, and she learned from the Hospice nurses how to care for him. Through this, she felt that God was calling her into a ministry of Hospice, so she went back to school, got another degree in nursing, then finished some additional training to qualify her for several other aspects of Hospice care.

She is only one of MANY people I know who sought God's "calling", and responded accordingly. I loved police work, but that was not my "calling". It's still in my blood, and I'm still involved in it in a number of ways, but it's because I LIKE it, not because I feel "called" to it.

I think one of the greatest tragedies for a Christian is not understanding this.

I have a similar relationship to teaching and working with children. Unfortunately, in this day and age, a man my age showing an interest in working with young children tends to be looked on with a bit of suspicion.

[carpedm9587]

I believe you are interested in a battle.

OK - now I'm going to challenge you a bit. As a pastor (which I think you are?), do you really have the luxury of bypassing an opportunity to answer a question posed and assuming mal-intent on the part of the asker? Is it not at least possible that Sim has finally heard some of the words offered in your defense and addressing his posts and is genuinely asking a question?

Yes - you run the risk of "getting taken." Happens to me all the time. But I seem to remember a parable about seeds and fertile ground? Is it really to the sower to decide if the seed is or is not going to take?

Just a thought...from a heathen...