Half of all cases happening in care homes

[Cow Poke]

A convenient belief in this case once again freeing you from the trouble of explaining...

Thanks, Charles.

[Cow Poke]

I've been watching the ongoing war between you and Jim. I keep wondering who is going to be the first to bury the hatchet.

I think I made the error of lumping him in with (since he seems to be more closely associated with) the anti-Christian crowd, and those who just seem to love to do battle for the sake of doing battle.

I can tell you, from the outside looking in, I see two people who I generally respect and admire (though I disagree with them on a fairly regular basis - about different things). It's a shame you guys can't find that in each other.

That's exactly why I made the statement that you highlighted. (or, technically, underlined)

[Cow Poke]

I have a similar relationship to teaching and working with children. Unfortunately, in this day and age, a man my age showing an interest in working with young children tends to be looked on with a bit of suspicion.

EGGzackly. When my oldest daughter was very young, her Sunday School teacher was an elderly man who loved children. In THIS DAY and age, he'd probably be considered a pervert. But I can't count the number of times she would proudly proclaim "My Sunday School Man said....."

(and he was, by all accounts, a very decent and honorable man)

[mossrose]

If somebody is truly interested and asks, I'll be happy to respond.

Simp is certainly bring true to his calling as a troll, and it's very discernible.

[Cow Poke]

OK - now I'm going to challenge you a bit.

I welcome this.

As a pastor (which I think you are?), do you really have the luxury of bypassing an opportunity to answer a question posed and assuming mal-intent on the part of the asker? Is it not at least possible that Sim has finally heard some of the words offered in your defense and addressing his posts and is genuinely asking a question?

If I thought he was a sincere seeker, I'd be happy to entertain his questions. I don't believe he's sincere, as he frequently rips statements out of context and assigns to them the least charitable meaning possible. Any attempt to explain is met with accusations of "he's changing his story".

A good friend, who happened to be an older Assembly of God pastor, once gave me some excellent advice (well, not once, but this particular time, especially good) when we ended up dealing with a problematic 'seeker'. He said, "brother, I have been in this a long time, and I have come to believe that sometimes the Devil just sends people our way to tie up our time".

Yes - you run the risk of "getting taken." Happens to me all the time. But I seem to remember a parable about seeds and fertile ground? Is it really to the sower to decide if the seed is or is not going to take?

OK, so note -- I'm basically answering his questions because you rephrase or highlight them. Even though you and I are mortal enemies () I believe you ask questions to gain an understanding, not so you can prepare your next round of attacks.

Just a thought...from a heathen...

As I noted, I'll be happy to answer questions from any interested parties. I honestly don't believe he's one.

[Cow Poke]

OK - now I'm going to challenge you a bit. As a pastor ...

I thought I'd address this part separately. I think the world has a distorted view of "pastor", and I certainly don't hold myself out to be the best example. I'm a crusty old veteran, former POW, former police officer, oilfield chaplain, police chaplain.... who believes God called me into the ministry.

A pastor is analogous to a shepherd. A shepherd has a responsibility to watch, keep and guard his flock. If a bear or wolf comes along, it's the shepherd's job to chase them off, and if they attack, to repel them.

Look at the difference in the way Jesus responded to sincere seekers as opposed to those who were just out to trap into saying something for which they could attack Him.

Part of my job is to discern the difference, and I don't always get it right - which is part of the reason God gave me my wife -- she's WAY better at this discernment part than I am.

Look at the difference between how I respond to you, and how I respond to those who just seem to be here to engage in battle. I'm fully aware that you and I are worlds apart in many beliefs, but I don't believe you have ever been antagonistic or combative simply for the sake of scoring points.

[carpedm9587]

I welcome this.

If I thought he was a sincere seeker, I'd be happy to entertain his questions. I don't believe he's sincere, as he frequently rips statements out of context and assigns to them the least charitable meaning possible. Any attempt to explain is met with accusations of "he's changing his story".

A good friend, who happened to be an older Assembly of God pastor, once gave me some excellent advice (well, not once, but this particular time, especially good) when we ended up dealing with a problematic 'seeker'. He said, "brother, I have been in this a long time, and I have come to believe that sometimes the Devil just sends people our way to tie up our time".

OK, so note -- I'm basically answering his questions because you rephrase or highlight them. Even though you and I are mortal enemies () I believe you ask questions to gain an understanding, not so you can prepare your next round of attacks.

For the underlined, italicized: you bet your sweet bippy!

For the underlined, bolded: that makes you a rarity on this board, AFAICT.

As I noted, I'll be happy to answer questions from any interested parties. I honestly don't believe he's one.

'Nuff said. Just thought I'd toss it out there. I was probably virtue signaling or something...


ETA: that latter comment was NOT about you, but I think it does qualify as "passive aggressive"

[Sparko]

All nursing homes are understaffed, except for the top tier of homes. And yes, it is the lowest rung on the healthcare ladder, because that is the value placed on it. And there are no snazzy television shows about nursing homes.

So your church does not have any congregants who are willing to care for those most in need? Pro life has real meaning, and it extends from the conception to end of life. The trouble is, the Lord made the end of life such that it is not cute and cuddly. And even Christians are repulsed by what He hath wrought!

Horrible?

Yes my church does have several nursing home ministries. But all we can do is supply company, some prayer, and such. We aren't healthcare workers and are not licensed. What about you? What do YOU do about those in nursing homes besides accuse Christians of not doing enough?

You are such a twit. The horribleness is not from the "end of life" but how those who are going through the end of life are treated by the nursing homes.

[Sparko]

Why?

The homes which don't smell like patients soiled their pants most commonly achieve that by turning away those inconvenient patients. The community hospitals which take all comers are more likely to be dingy and dank, because they do not have the funding or the endowments.

Taking patients as they are is entirely consistent with the Christian view, it is not consistent with maintaining pristine hallways.

Those "cheapest available help" seem to have fallen off your radar, which probably explains why you were so easy with denigrating those who actually take on the tasks of caring for those inconvenient people. Your outreach failed to reach out where it is needed.

So what you are saying is that you have no idea about how nursing homes work at all, or churches. I see. Good to know. You probably never even visited one. Good to know. We can ignore your sanctimonious blathering now.

[Sparko]

several of our nursing homes are "horrible". The stench of urine and feces is in the air, the quality of the employees seems to indicate a "let's hire the absolute cheapest labor we can get away with", and condition of the facility is run down.


One Christians disparages the workers who work with our elderly, the most powerless of our society, and as someone noted, are too problematic to deal with at home. So they end up in nursing homes. And another feels the need to top that post. People have dignity, even nursing home workers who clean up and care for the most difficult.

The nursing home workers have dignity, perhaps a special dignity, because they work with the most difficult patients. The "best" nursing homes filter out who they take care of, the least problematic ones. The ones who take all comers, like the community hospitals, end up with the hardest patients. Those who are on "the lowest rung of the health care ladder" are dealing with life as it is. Life as G-d designed it.

Pro life is anti abortion, and churches can mobilize people to advocate and agitate for the first nine months. But other than the "feel good" ministries to those residents, there is little outreach to the workers, who are working poor. I am quite sure Cowpoke is not forthright about how he feels about those workers whose quality is so low as to suggest that they are the cheapest which can be gotten, he is there to assist.

But at the far end of life, the end closest to heaven, when they are problematic, whose incontinence produces such horrible results? Human life has dignity, even at the end of life when they are not cute as they are at the beginning of life.

Do pro life churches encourage members to choose a career serving people at the end of life? Sure doesn't sound like it. Wiping and changing patients? eeeeeewwwww. If the workers were any good, they'd have a job elsewhere. Nothing says thanks for caring for and serving those in need than to note their low quality

Look at what the Lord has wrought: incontinent burdens. Look at how these pro life Christians disparage those who serve those most in need, the burdensome incontinent.

What a pile of horsepoo.

Yes I said that the workers at nursing homes are generally not very good and don't seem to care. Now you are trying to put them on a pedestal. LOL.

I also said that I wasn't saying there aren't some good nursing homes or people working there who do care. There are. But there are also workers there who DON'T care. I even gave you an example, where my brother's father-in-law lost a leg due to neglect. Why do you think there are so many lawsuits against nursing homes? If the quality of care there were good there wouldn't be so many horror stories about nursing homes. Calling out bad workers is not somehow anti-prolife. That is complete BS, we call out the deficient care because we DO value life. The life of the residents. But no, you just want to find something to troll about. You are such a miserable troll, simplicio. I feel sorry for you.

[Sparko]

What do I do for nursing homes in my area? Not nearly enough, and I know that I will be judged on that when I stand on judgement day.

Your words to God's ears, you prig.

[Sparko]

So I read CP and Sparko's comments, and did not come away with the same impression you apparently did. The fact is, nursing homes vary widely from the very good to the truly despicable. The former take excellent care of their patients, have high standards, and maintain a healthy, professional environment. The latter prey on the weak, cut corners, and pay minimal salaries - thereby attracting only those willing to accept those salaries, and they often do not have the best interests of their patients in mind.

Yep. Which is what I said. But simplicio is just trying to twist our words into something he can attack.

This is not a binary situation. Even in the worst nursing homes, you will often find those going the extra mile for their patients - and blowing the whistle whenever they can. But they tend to be exceptions. I have been in and seen both types of care facility, and the difference is amazing. Pointing out the bad apples does not denigrate those who are truly to be admired for their work. I saw CP and Sparko making comments in this vein, not making comments that were a sweeping denigration of all nursing homes and all workers therein.

Exactly.

[simplicio]

Yep. Which is what I said. But simplicio is just trying to twist our words into something he can attack.




Exactly.

So you stand by your statement that if someone was any good they would not be working in long term care? I thought your statement was pretty clear. CP brought in the idea of a calling, which I assume he means a divinely inspired vocation.

[simplicio]

Your words to God's ears, you prig.

Just how many Christians do you that really do enough, especially enough to be satisfied upon judgement?

[Cow Poke]

What a pile of horsepoo.

Yes I said that the workers at nursing homes are generally not very good and don't seem to care. Now you are trying to put them on a pedestal. LOL.....

In our "Jobs for Life" program, "nursing home aid" is very clearly at the bottom of the totem pole for entry level work. We don't determine that - we just recognize the market for what it is, and help people start there, then migrate up to something that pays better and is less menial.

If we didn't value these people, we wouldn't help them find jobs, train them, and help them get better jobs.

Somehow, this post will probably be perverted into some form of "SEE --- he said it again... health care workers are TRASH!"