Ideas on how to reopen the economy w/o returning to exponential spread

[simplicio]

It's a partisan thing. Conservatives don't like liberal authoritarianism. But that's nothing new because we never liked it. It's amplified in Michigan because the Dem authoritarian governor there is going overboard trying to impress Biden as a tough girl for the VP position.

Is a quarantine a form of liberal authoritarianism?

[seanD]

Is a quarantine a form of liberal authoritarianism?

What we're seeing today, absolutely. You have liberals on this very broad demanding that they implement more draconian measures so we all don't die, that what we have now is not enough. Big government authoritarianism is now a liberal thing. Strange that, since it used to be the rightwingers that used to demand more of that part of government -- military, police, law enforcement, intelligence, forcible law and order, etc.

[simplicio]

What we're seeing today, absolutely. You have liberals on this very broad demanding that they implement more draconian measures so we all don't die, that what we have now is not enough. Big government authoritarianism is now a liberal thing. Strange that, since it used to be the rightwingers that used to demand more of that part of government -- military, police, law enforcement, intelligence, forcible law and order, etc.

And if we were facing an Ebola epidemic in this country? Many on the right were demanding that the Obama administration take draconian action just a few years ago.

what do we have now? We have some areas with an isolation shutdown with a stay at home advisory in some areas with more relaxed rules in other areas. The difference is that the non-urban areas (rural) have not seen the inevitable yet.

[oxmixmudd]

And if we were facing an Ebola epidemic in this country? Many on the right were demanding that the Obama administration take draconian action just a few years ago.

what do we have now? We have some areas with an isolation shutdown with a stay at home advisory in some areas with more relaxed rules in other areas. The difference is that the non-urban areas (rural) have not seen the inevitable yet.

There is real problem brewing in the trump supporting heartland where the desire to be supportive of Trump is endangering our food supply. Where ignorance of the medical realities fed by Trump supporting media outlets gave ket thus thing fain a foothold in meat processing plants. And there are the soon to come problems in farming due to lack of workers in the fields or at the markets, graineriescand other types of food orocessing. Plants.

The virus could care less about politics, or elections, red or blue. If given the opportunity to spread and kill, it will spread and kill.

This thread is about ideas on how to do the work that must be done w/o spreading the disease.

Clearly we have to do the basics though. We have to test. We face to give workers the PPE they bed if they must work in close quarters. We need to mandate that workers have paid time off or sone other incentive to keep them at hone when sick. Over time we need to structure critical industry so that hunan to humsn contact is minimised, but that is a ways off.

Anybody know anything about meat processing plants and actions that could be taken in the short term to reduce the chance of spread within them?

[seanD]

And if we were facing an Ebola epidemic in this country? Many on the right were demanding that the Obama administration take draconian action just a few years ago.

what do we have now? We have some areas with an isolation shutdown with a stay at home advisory in some areas with more relaxed rules in other areas. The difference is that the non-urban areas (rural) have not seen the inevitable yet.

Point being, just because there is a faction of folks tired of the authoritarian nature of this crisis doesn't mean everyone is ready to go back to doing what we were doing before. PTSD is a real issue here. If NBA started back up today, I doubt they'd fill even a quarter of the seats, let alone anything significant that would enable them to function as a profitable business again. Now multiply that by millions of such businesses. Things won't be the same, maybe for years to come in spite of "opening things up" (whatever that even means).

[simplicio]

There is real problem brewing in the trump supporting heartland where the desire to be supportive of Trump is endangering our food supply. Where ignorance of the medical realities fed by Trump supporting media outlets gave ket thus thing fain a foothold in meat processing plants. And there are the soon to come problems in farming due to lack of workers in the fields or at the markets, graineriescand other types of food orocessing. Plants.

The virus could care less about politics, or elections, red or blue. If given the opportunity to spread and kill, it will spread and kill.

This thread is about ideas on how to do the work that must be done w/o spreading the disease.

Clearly we have to do the basics though. We have to test. We face to give workers the PPE they bed if they must work in close quarters. We need to mandate that workers have paid time off or sone other incentive to keep them at hone when sick. Over time we need to structure critical industry so that hunan to humsn contact is minimised, but that is a ways off.

Anybody know anything about meat processing plants and actions that could be taken in the short term to reduce the chance of spread within them?

Most modern meat plants have few workers standing shoulder to shoulder, except at entrances, timeclocks, and cafeterias; they are behemoth factories with dozens of trucks unloading at one end and dozens upon dozens of trucks leaving. I do not know how effective masks are at preventing the spread under such conditions. I doubt they can operate at a reduced work force because of it assembly line nature.

We, as a society, cannot meet the needs of nurses who care for covid-19 patients, I read where 10 California nurses were laid off because the refused to provide care for positive patients without recommended PPE. (and considering the current criminal investigation by the DA in California, who blames them? They are violating the infection control protocols by working without masks).

[shunyadragon]

Florida follows Trump's model.

Source: https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/hundreds-flood-florida-beach-as-florida-reopens-some-parks/

Jacksonville beach packed as Florida coronavirus cases hit record

© Copyright Original Source

[simplicio]

Florida follows Trump's model.

Source: https://nypost.com/2020/04/18/hundreds-flood-florida-beach-as-florida-reopens-some-parks/

Jacksonville beach packed as Florida coronavirus cases hit record

© Copyright Original Source

Hmmm, wasn't one of the criticism of the Chinese is that they allowed the coronavirus to spread?

[shunyadragon]

Hmmm, wasn't one of the criticism of the Chinese is that they allowed the coronavirus to spread?

Also Florida has the probably the highest percentage of the elderly and vulnerable population.

[Sparko]

General opening gradually over time beginning between May 15 and June 15 depending on the rate of new cases of COVAG-15. The emphasis should isolation and support of those over 65 and the vulnerable. Some adjustments can be made before to keep essential businesses and food production operating,

As a note at present the rate of infection of new cases does not appear to be declining.

What's "COVAG-15?"

[shunyadragon]

What's "COVAG-15?"

typo COVAG-19

[Sparko]

typo COVAG-19

What is COVAG??? It's COVID.

[Mountain Man]

...depending on the rate of new cases of COVAG-15.

You have to be doing this deliberately.

[Mountain Man]

And if we were facing an Ebola epidemic in this country? Many on the right were demanding that the Obama administration take draconian action just a few years ago.

Too vague. You'll have to give some examples. Exactly who on the "right" was "demanding" this? And what were their actual "demands"?

As I recall during the zika outbreak, conservatives were criticizing Obama for not restricting travel, but I don't remember any calls for shutting down the country and arresting people who dared to leave their homes.

[seanD]

What is COVAG??? It's COVID.

Coronavirus is GROSS, silly.