Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

[oxmixmudd]

But there was lots of eyewitness and firsthand testimony, which is all we really have now despite the media suddenly changing its tune. Scientific evidence isn't the only kind of evidence you know. One theory I've heard for the left's sudden interest in the China flu's origins is that they want to distract the public from the vote audits currently taking place in several states.

When there is objective evidence, there is a reason to report on the possibility. When there is no credible evidence and there are obvious motivations by those making the claims to 'make stuff up', as well as a penchant for conspiracy theories, there are many valid reasons to treat the claims as having no merit.

As I've said before, a broken watch is correct twice a day. The only problem is, without an accurate watch to compare it to, you never know when that is. It was always possible the virus leaked from the Chinese lab. I said so from the first time the possibility was discussed. It was even likely the Chinese would try to cover it up if that was the case. I said that too.

What you need to substantiate the claim is evidence. And when the only people making the claim have obvious ulterior motives - even more so.

You would agree with me if the ideological framing of the issue were the reverse.

In fact, you and others have made the point many times when the ideological framing of an issue was the reverse of this situation.

[Mountain Man]

His narrative is slowly slipping, step by step.

Next it will be, "Okay, okay, yes they researched gain of function, but I TRIED to stop them!"

President Trump sure knew how to pick 'em, didn't he? I don't think he ever really figured that government is not like a business, where everybody can hate each other and still work towards a common goal.

[Mountain Man]

As I've said before, a broken watch is correct twice a day.

Yes, that seems to be the favorite rationalization of people who find out that something they discounted turns out to be true.

[Sparko]

No - people here (apparently including you) interpreted my statements castigating reliance on unsupportable conspiracy theories and that made clear the issue is that there was no scientific evidence to support a lab origin as denials of the possibility it was an accidental lab release.

There is a difference. What has been circulating prior was irrational, generally ideologically driven statements, usually mixed in with derogatory verbiage towards people of Asian descent, and usually hinting at - if not outright accusing - the Chinese of releasing it on purpose.

What exists now is actual evidence that might point to an accidental (not purposeful) release from the lab. This is also why the legitimate news sources are now reporting on it.

Evidence.

What "actual" evidence exists now that wasn't known back when I started this thread?

[rogue06]

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[Cerebrum123]

What "actual" evidence exists now that wasn't known back when I started this thread?

The information about the scientists at the lab getting sick before the Covid 19 outbreak. That is about it though, and there certainly was evidence* that a lab leak was possible, it just wasn't conclusive. In fact oxmixmudd's post shows he either doesn't remember what he said very well, or he's gaslighting.

Yeah, a wild virus getting a mutation in the lab after being brought there, and not elsewhere is entirely possible.

According to the available research, it is NOT what the evidence indicates happened. You would risk continued escalation of tensions between the US and China over a 'hunch' not supported by the evidence? Is that how important excusing Trump's shoddy handling of this pandemic is to you?

And yet the paper trail points to exactly that happening. Escaping from a lab. Even if the virus was human transmissible in the the wild, that doesn't excuse the lab if they brought it into the lab and was careless with it, letting it escape. It might never have come into contact with people otherwise.

Does that look like he was fine with the idea of a lab escape to you? He immediately tried to make it seem as if the "lab escape" hypothesis was entirely Trump inspired and driven by those devoted to Trump. He also tries to bring in derogatory verbiage towards people of Asian descent" as another reason for his level of backlash. I'm not finding anything in this thread so far that is even remotely close to "derogatory verbiage towards people of Asian descent".

Apparently he doesn't seem to realize that the level of fervor to which he was opposing the mere possibility** of a lab escape was motivated by how own political bias. In fact he had to twist my word into a caricature of what they were in order to attack me. All while projecting that onto me and playing the victim.

*The closest thing to Covid 19 genetically was a virus that was in the lab, and they couldn't find anything near as close in the wild.

**Neither one of said it was certain, or that it was an intentionally manufactured virus. We just said that Fauci was a bit too dismissive of other possibilities that could have involved the lab. Turns out we were right that it was dismissed too easily. He also dishonestly tried to imply that I thought the Chinese were trying to "foist a deadly virus onto the world". I nowhere stated anything like that, and even had to explicitly call out this absurd notion. Yet he still continued his attacks on me, and his attempt to derail the discussion into yet another anti-Trump tirade. Apparently his anger and unconscious bias trumped his reading comprehension earlier in the thread.

Edit. It took him quite a while to even admit that it was a possibility that there was an escape from the lab due to an accident. Only after Starlight and Juvenal mentioned they thought it was likely did he soften up to the idea.

[Sparko]

The information about the scientists at the lab getting sick before the Covid 19 outbreak.

from my OP:

"Worth noting, at least one young researcher from the lab —Huang Yanling — a graduate student thought to be patient zero — was scrubbed from the lab’s website."

[Cerebrum123]

04-Wuhan-Con-LA-1080-1200x630.jpg

oxmixmudd is still trying to play the racism card in his defense of his own actions in this thread, despite none of us saying anything derogatory towards people of Asian descent.

[Cerebrum123]

from my OP:

"Worth noting, at least one young researcher from the lab —Huang Yanling — a graduate student thought to be patient zero — was scrubbed from the lab’s website."

I didn't remember that detail from the OP. So it looks like there was much more evidence in support of a lab escape than I realized. Now we have many on the left in full denial mode as they try to deflect from how they reacted to the very idea of a lab escape being a possibility.

[rogue06]

oxmixmudd is still trying to play the racism card in his defense of his own actions in this thread, despite none of us saying anything derogatory towards people of Asian descent.

The very reason that I call it the Chicom coronavirus is to distinguish between the government there (which is responsible for this plague), and the Chinese people (who are just as much victims as everyone else).

[Sparko]

This theory of the origin strikes me as quite interesting:

Note: I've done absolutely zero fact-checking of anything said in that video. I post it as a 'that sounds vaguely plausible' rather than 'everyone should believe this!'.

I just wanted to bump this video that Starlight posted earlier about someone tracing what could have happened in Wuhan. very interesting.

[Mountain Man]

Fredo Cuomo uses twisted logic to insist that Trump and his supporters "were wrong before they were right" about the origins of the China flu.

[seanD]

Fredo Cuomo uses twisted logic to insist that Trump and his supporters "were wrong before they were right" about the origins of the China flu.

Another black eye to the credibility of the leftist MSM was worth every day of vilification and ridicule.

[rogue06]

Fredo Cuomo uses twisted logic to insist that Trump and his supporters "were wrong before they were right" about the origins of the China flu.

On MSNBC's Morning Joe today, AP White House reporter Jonathan Lemire was livid that Trump and other conservatives have been, as he said, "almost taking a victory lap" now that scoffers and nay-sayers in the MSM as well as the White House are finally having to admit that it is becoming increasingly likely that the Chicom coronavirus leaked from a lab. Lemire groused that because Trump hadn't instantly (January last year) declared it likely came from a leak that, therefore, Trump "and his allies are practicing some revisionist history."

Yesterday, one of the View Shrews, Joy Behar, after ranting about how Trump picked on the poor widdle Chicoms, frumbled that Trump made a "lucky guess" about where the virus came from. Keep in mind this is the show where Whoopi Goldberg denied that the Chinese government was accusing the U.S. military of having spread Covid in Wuhan^[1]

Meanwhile, over at the New York Times, Apoorva Mandavilli, the paper's lead reporter covering the Chinese coronavirus, apparently doesn't want any investigation into where the virus originated from because ... say it with me now ... because it's raaaaaaaaaaaaacist.

Mandavilia_Tweet_lableak_racist.jpg

Yup. The very idea that the virus originated from a lab is racist.





1. apparently China has never stopped pushing this. Yesterday they announced that any investigation into China is over and it is time to start investigating "other countries" as the possible source of their plague.

[Mountain Man]

It's certainly strange that liberals are more upset about Trump possibly being right then they are about China's lack of candor that led to thousands of deaths around the world.