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Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

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  • Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

    Remember the conspiracy theory going around that the coronavirus escaped from a lab in China? Nuts, right?

    Not so fast..

    ----------------
    For months, anyone who said the new SARS coronavirus might have come out of a virology research lab in Wuhan, China was dismissed as a right wing xenophobe.

    When Zero Hedge — a financial news website whose comment section certainly fits the right wing stereotype — first put out its own bombastic version of the bat-borne virus escaping a research lab, they were banned from Twitter.

    FOX host Tucker Carlson starting banging this drum last week.

    But on Tuesday, the narrative flipped. It’s no longer a story shared by China bears and President Trump fans. Today, Josh Rogin, who is said to be as plugged into the State Department as any Washington Post columnist, was shown documents dating back to 2015 revealing how the U.S. government was worried about safety standards at that Wuhan lab. In fact, they were worried that one day, one of these experiments — including the one on bat coronaviruses — could escape and become a global nightmare.

    ...
    “In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.”

    Worth noting, at least one young researcher from the lab —Huang Yanling — a graduate student thought to be patient zero — was scrubbed from the lab’s website.

    ...

    The Washington Post story today brings the possibility of a lab leak into the mainstream.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#41dda721ee1f

    The Washington post story is here, but it's behind a paywall.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/


  • #2
    This is an interesting view of the whole mess, an open letter signed by more than 100 politicians and policy experts who are calling it the "Chinese Chernobyl moment".

    https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/c...s-open-letter/


    Securely anchored to the Rock amid every storm of trial, testing or tribulation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by mossrose View Post
      This is an interesting view of the whole mess, an open letter signed by more than 100 politicians and policy experts who are calling it the "Chinese Chernobyl moment".

      https://globalnews.ca/news/6814940/c...s-open-letter/
      If this was something that escaped from a lab (note: that doesn't mean it was manmade, it could still be naturally bred) it would explain why China was so adamant about covering it up. They actually have something to hide. They were playing with fire and it got away from them.

      Comment


      • #4
        They could have been studying coronaviruses to see how they jump from animals to humans by exposing animal virus to human cells until they evolved to infect human DNA. Then someone accidentally infected themselves and started the spread in the population.

        Comment


        • #5
          The problem encountered when looking at this conspiracy theory is that this may appear plausible but essentially be fake. It is easy to pass disinformation by providing theories that fit popular biases. This is the low hanging fruit for the populace. We don't know if there was any leak of this virus; also, such a leak would be unlikely because of safeguards in these labs. This theory can be used to stir up fears about the COVID-19 among people acrosss the world when we actually only see outbreaks of unusually severe sickness in a few places -- which may more readily be explained by local contributing factors.

          Don't follow the amateurs theorists at the Washington Post.
          Last edited by mikewhitney; 04-15-2020, 10:27 AM.

          Comment


          • #6
            And this assumes it was an accident.
            Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
            But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
            Than a fool in the eyes of God


            From "Fools Gold" by Petra

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by mikewhitney View Post
              The problem encountered when looking at this conspiracy theory is that this may appear plausible but essentially be fake. It is easy to pass disinformation by providing theories that fit popular biases. This is the low hanging fruit for the populace. We don't know if there was any leak of this virus; also, such a leak would be unlikely because of safeguards in these labs. This theory can be used to stir up fears about the COVID-19 among people acrosss the world when we actually only see outbreaks of unusual severe sickness in a few places -- which may more readily be explained by local contributing factors.

              Don't follow the amateurs at the Washington Post.
              Wait. what? Mr. Conspiracy Theory is denying this is real? Who are you and what did you do with Mike?


              The news is that the State Department said back in 2015 that this lab was an accident waiting to happen BECAUSE of the lack of safeguards.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                And this assumes it was an accident.
                I would think that it was, otherwise they would have already had a vaccine ready. Of course, who knows? Or they could have just decided to take advantage of the accidental release to see what happens and hurt the rest of the world. Great test for an actual bioweapon they might want to use later. Of course, now I am sounding like a conspiracy nut.

                I think if it did escape from a lab, it was accidental. When they realized it they wanted to cover up their "Chernobyl" to save face.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                  Remember the conspiracy theory going around that the coronavirus escaped from a lab in China? Nuts, right?

                  Not so fast..

                  ----------------
                  For months, anyone who said the new SARS coronavirus might have come out of a virology research lab in Wuhan, China was dismissed as a right wing xenophobe.

                  When Zero Hedge — a financial news website whose comment section certainly fits the right wing stereotype — first put out its own bombastic version of the bat-borne virus escaping a research lab, they were banned from Twitter.

                  FOX host Tucker Carlson starting banging this drum last week.

                  But on Tuesday, the narrative flipped. It’s no longer a story shared by China bears and President Trump fans. Today, Josh Rogin, who is said to be as plugged into the State Department as any Washington Post columnist, was shown documents dating back to 2015 revealing how the U.S. government was worried about safety standards at that Wuhan lab. In fact, they were worried that one day, one of these experiments — including the one on bat coronaviruses — could escape and become a global nightmare.

                  ...
                  “In January 2018, the U.S. Embassy in Beijing took the unusual step of repeatedly sending U.S. science diplomats to the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV), which had in 2015 become China’s first laboratory to achieve the highest level of international bioresearch safety (known as BSL-4). WIV issued a news release in English about the last of these visits, which occurred on March 27, 2018. The U.S. delegation was led by Jamison Fouss, the consul general in Wuhan, and Rick Switzer, the embassy’s counselor of environment, science, technology and health. Last week, WIV erased that statement from its website, though it remains archived on the Internet.”

                  Worth noting, at least one young researcher from the lab —Huang Yanling — a graduate student thought to be patient zero — was scrubbed from the lab’s website.

                  ...

                  The Washington Post story today brings the possibility of a lab leak into the mainstream.

                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapo.../#41dda721ee1f

                  The Washington post story is here, but it's behind a paywall.
                  https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...coronaviruses/
                  I personally never said the idea itself was outside the realm of possibility. But it has been circulating as a conspiracy theory without hard evidence in nutter circles. My comments were more along the lines of there is no evidence of it, and research shows its evolution appears to have been impossible in a lab setting. That said, it is possible such research can be wrong. And I base my opinions on these things on the evidence, not irrational nuttery sources.

                  Of course, if it turns out to be true, then the nutters will become even more entrenched in their nuttery. Such is the nature of nuttery.

                  Rational thinking does not act on irrational nuttery. There needs to be evidence, facts to back it up. Then maybe an idea or hypothesis can leave the realm of irrational nuttery and move into the plane of rational discourse.

                  The way you have introduced this is dangerous Sparko. Irrational nuttery is always dangerous. And we should not live our lives walking in it. The irrational nutters circulating the idea had nothing on which to base their claims than prejudice and innuendo. And as a result. the fact every so often something circulating in irrational nuttery circles turns out to be true should not change our approach to or skepticism of irrational nuttery.
                  Last edited by oxmixmudd; 04-15-2020, 10:43 AM.
                  Mockery is the argument of the mentally and/or emotionally challenged.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    Wait. what? Mr. Conspiracy Theory is denying this is real? Who are you and what did you do with Mike?
                    'I should hardly have thought, sir,' he said, 'that you had any quarrel with mystical explanations.'

                    'On the contrary,' replied Father Brown, blinking amiably at him. 'That's just why I can quarrel with 'em. Any sham lawyer could bamboozle me, but he couldn't bamboozle you; because you're a lawyer yourself. Any fool could dress up as a Red Indian and I'd swallow him whole as the only original Hiawatha; but Mr Crake would see through him at once. A swindler could pretend to me that he knew all about aeroplanes, but not to Captain Wain. And it's just the same with the other, don't you see?


                    The convenient 'blame China' tactic is one of the rare times pro-Trump Republicans and anti-Trump neocons are uniting, and almost completely nonsense.
                    Last edited by demi-conservative; 04-15-2020, 10:43 AM.
                    Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Wait. what? Mr. Conspiracy Theory is denying this is real? Who are you and what did you do with Mike?


                      The news is that the State Department said back in 2015 that this lab was an accident waiting to happen BECAUSE of the lack of safeguards.
                      The stated concern of Hillary's State Deparatment in 2015 does not mean that an accidental (or intended) release of a virus happened in Wuhan. Amateurs.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post
                        I personally never said the idea itself was outside the realm of possibility. But it has been circulating as a conspiracy theory without hard evidence in nutter circles. My comments were more along the lines of there is no evidence of it, and research shows its evolution appears to have been impossible in a lab setting. That said, it is possible such research can be wrong. And I base my opinions on these things on the evidence, not irrational nuttery sources.

                        Of course, if it turns out to be true, then the nutters will become even more entrenched in their nuttery. Such is the nature of nuttery.

                        Rational thinking does not act on irrational nuttery. There needs to be evidence, facts to back it up. Then maybe an idea or hypothesis can leave the realm of irrational nuttery and move into the plane of rational discourse.

                        The way you have introduced this is dangerous Sparko. Irrational nuttery is always dangerous. And we should not live our lives walking in it. The irrational nutters circulating the idea had nothing on which to base their claims than prejudice and innuendo. And as a result. the fact every so often something circulating in irrational nuttery circles turns out to be true should not change our approach to or skepticism of irrational nuttery.
                        The research shows that the current coronavirus looks exactly like an exosome. Exosomes are evidence of the cellular mechanisms process of cleansing the body of toxins. So why does this virus look so much like an exosome? How are we to tell the difference?

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post
                          'I should hardly have thought, sir,' he said, 'that you had any quarrel with mystical explanations.'

                          'On the contrary,' replied Father Brown, blinking amiably at him. 'That's just why I can quarrel with 'em. Any sham lawyer could bamboozle me, but he couldn't bamboozle you; because you're a lawyer yourself. Any fool could dress up as a Red Indian and I'd swallow him whole as the only original Hiawatha; but Mr Crake would see through him at once. A swindler could pretend to me that he knew all about aeroplanes, but not to Captain Wain. And it's just the same with the other, don't you see?


                          The convenient 'blame China' tactic is one of the rare times pro-Trump Republicans and anti-Trump neocons are uniting, and almost completely nonsense.
                          Are you suggesting that because mikewhitney is usually the first to jump on conspiracy theories, that we should trust him when he discounts one particular hypothesis that is actually supported by evidence? I love GK Chesterton as much as anybody, but I don't think the quote fits this particular situation.

                          For one thing, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo did not explicitly discount the possibility of a lab leak saying that we're still trying to piece everything together.

                          https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-to-find-out/
                          Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
                          But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
                          Than a fool in the eyes of God


                          From "Fools Gold" by Petra

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            The problem with conspiracies on a national level where government is behind the cover-up, is that it will probably never ever be proven. If it eventually is, it will be years if not decades when the previous government passes on and perhaps official docs are leaked. And this is especially true of a tyrannical government like china that has no outside restraints of its attempt to cover it up and keep it covered up. They could just kill any and all witnesses or whistleblowers, or even those they suspect might be a potential witness risk.
                            "I was the CIA director. We lied, we cheated, we stole, it was like... we had entire training courses. It reminds you of the glory of the American experiment." - Mike Pompeo, Secretary of State (source).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
                              Are you suggesting that because mikewhitney is usually the first to jump on conspiracy theories, that we should trust him when he discounts one particular hypothesis that is actually supported by evidence? I love GK Chesterton as much as anybody, but I don't think the quote fits this particular situation.

                              For one thing, Secretary of State Mike Pompeo did not explicitly discount the possibility of a lab leak saying that we're still trying to piece everything together.

                              https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-to-find-out/
                              There is zero question that the US's response to the virus was poor in many ways involving many departments of government, and now many are blaming China to deflect from the obvious. The rightwing media are more full of BS than the leftwing media on the virus.
                              Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.

                              Comment

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