Lab Leak: The conspiracy theory is shaping up to look like real possibility

[oxmixmudd]

Apparently you are blind to your own tone, words, implications, and ideological bias. Someone who is fine with discussing the mere possibility that something like a lab leak happened doesn't attack people for saying there is a mere possibility a lab leak happened. They also don't make straw men to knock down/put words into other people's mouths.

I said early on that a wuhan lab leak was a possibility but that the evidence so far did not support that. It was implied I had dismissed the possibility of a lab leak entirely and my responses this week are about correcting that misperception. I was very dismissive of the claims coming out of the executive branch and the grossly biased uber conservative media outlets. They had zero credibility outside their intended audience.

We had actual evidence that it should be considered in the thread, not just rumors either. Not to mention the fact we were merely discussing the possible implications of said evidence as well as possibilities that Fauci either hadn't thought of or was dismissing outright like yourself. None of us said we were 100% certain that a lab leak happened, and I don't see anyone saying China did it on purpose, or using derogatory language towards people of Asian descent.

In a general sense (not addressing specific responses to you related to specific posts you may have made) - from what I could see the 'actual' evidence was no more than biased reporting by sources fully committed to supporting a narrative that both tended to incite violence against Asians and that whitewashed the corruption in the administration at the time. I was not nor am I about to give much weight to that sort of 'evidence' or sources. However, when the evidence is coming from legitimate sources like the CDC or our intelligence organizations, that is a different story.

Also nowhere did I mention a "world power confrontation",

You are correct. BUT I DID, and in my reply above I am talking about the post of mine that you quoted.

only that Fauci had not ruled out other possibilities that were not circular reasoning. I said he was being too dismissive in an another post, and what do you know he was being too dismissive.

How much is too much is by definition a subjective evaluation. However, being at least partially dismissive of questionable sources is in general a correct response. These issues need to be decided based on the science and the evidence.

Overall I note you are taking this on as a personal issue about posts I only vaguely recall. If somewhere in this thread a response of mine offended you - I apologize.

You however took that chance to attack me as if I were wearing a MAGA hat and waving a flag that said "Make Trump President For Life!" on it, and also posted the idea we should "make China pay".

Perhaps that is how you perceived a response of mine, perhaps that is how I perceived post or yours. Again, I can apologize for whatever offense you took. My responses this week, OTOH, are about making clear my earlier responses to the possibility this virus emerged from a Wuhan lab were made in the context of

1. the genetic evidence indicates a natural evolutionary path
2. the likely alternate potential source of the wet markets in Wuhan
3. those trying to push the idea of a China Lab origin were steeped in
   a) conspiratorial plots that insisted the release was purposed
   b) language that was inciting violence against American citizens of Asian descent
   c) being used as a cover to whitewash other failings in the white house at the time

I believe my responses to be consistent within that context, though I did not repeat each and every element of my position on these issues in each and every post made.

The fact researchers from the lab were taken to hospital with covid like symptoms in November, however, pushes the likelihood of a lab leak much higher than has been the case prior.

[oxmixmudd]

I guess you're going with the Fredo Cuomo rationalization that President Trump was wrong before he was right.

I see you have nothing better to do than to try to pick a fight. I, OTOH, do have much better things to do with my time.

[Gondwanaland]

Bwahahhaa!

Thanks. It's been a tough week, and I needed a laugh.

I understand its a Natural reaction to laugh when you are uncomfortable over realizing you have no valid argument.

[Mountain Man]

I see you have nothing better to do than to try to pick a fight.

Your time would certainly be better spent not regurgitating partisan baloney.

[Stoic]

Your time would certainly be better spent not regurgitating partisan baloney.

Funny you should say that right after we've discovered that sometimes partisan baloney turns out to be right.

[seanD]

I think that the notorious Febreze spraying incident (I misremembered it as being Lysol) would count. I can't link to any videos due to the language, but the sprayer (who does not belong to a demographic that voted for Trump) makes it clear that he sprayed the Asian man because he was standing too close to him.

Okay, well, I searched myself and if this is what you were referring to...

This is what I was talking about. Since we don't have any clear context, sure, it could have been related to pandemic paranoia, but it could have just been a crazy germaphobe dude that didn't like people being near him. I see crazy like this all the time in downtown LA on public transit, just folks who don't like people and flip out when you invade their space. We've got to be extra careful of this lest we fall victim to the false narratives that social media and MSM are experts at. The leftist narrative that there is a wave of violence against Asians specifically related to the pandemic; I don't see the evidence for this outside of assumptions, misconstrued and misrepresented situations and attacks.

[Gondwanaland]

Funny you should say that right after we've discovered that sometimes partisan baloney turns out to be right.

But that's the thing. It wasnt partisan baloney. Even many left leaning people I know knew this was quite likely even last year. The only partisan stuff involved here was the OMB types in MSM and social media outlets spending the last year castigating, mocking, Banning, suspending, and censoring everyone who even suggested the idea that is based on basic common sense.

[Sparko]

Here is what I think.

Various unnamed people seem to think that back during Trump's administration people putting forth the possibility that a lab leak occurred were considered conspiracy nuts, and the evidence just "rumors" not worthy of taking serious by the MSM. Yet now that same evidence, which has come to light based on investigations by Trump's administration is now considered plausible and the idea that a lab leak occurred is worthy of the MSM taking seriously.

If it weren't for Trump's investigation in the first place none of this would have been known, meaning it WAS worthy of investigation way back in 2020. The only reason the MSM didn't take it seriously back then was because Trump was saying it. The MSM has run with stories based on a lot less than the "rumors" that a lab leak occurred.

And just using occam's razor the idea that a lab leak is not only possible but likely should mean that we investigate it.

1. The virus started in Wuhan.
2. There just so happens to be a research lab studying coronaviruses in the same location as the breakout.
3. The Chinese government did (and is still doing) everything they can to minimize their culpability, even to trying to blame it on the USA.

That alone is enough to make the idea of a lab leak plausible. The idea that it was purely coincidence that a new coronavirus just so happened to naturally occur in a location where there is a lab studying them is what is the most unlikely scenario.

[seanD]

Here is what I think.

Various unnamed people seem to think that back during Trump's administration people putting forth the possibility that a lab leak occurred were considered conspiracy nuts, and the evidence just "rumors" not worthy of taking serious by the MSM. Yet now that same evidence, which has come to light based on investigations by Trump's administration is now considered plausible and the idea that a lab leak occurred is worthy of the MSM taking seriously.

If it weren't for Trump's investigation in the first place none of this would have been known, meaning it WAS worthy of investigation way back in 2020. The only reason the MSM didn't take it seriously back then was because Trump was saying it. The MSM has run with stories based on a lot less than the "rumors" that a lab leak occurred.

And just using occam's razor the idea that a lab leak is not only possible but likely should mean that we investigate it.

1. The virus started in Wuhan.
2. There just so happens to be a research lab studying coronaviruses in the same location as the breakout.
3. The Chinese government did (and is still doing) everything they can to minimize their culpability, even to trying to blame it on the USA.

That alone is enough to make the idea of a lab leak plausible. The idea that it was purely coincidence that a new coronavirus just so happened to naturally occur in a location where there is a lab studying them is what is the most unlikely scenario.

#4 CCP closely monitoring Who's investigation and keeping them from accessing certain raw data, kind of like a guilty suspect would do to hide their tracks lol.

[Stoic]

If it weren't for Trump's investigation in the first place none of this would have been known, meaning it WAS worthy of investigation way back in 2020.

If Trump ordered an investigation, all we've learned from it so far was that several WIV researchers got very sick in the fall of 2019 with something similar to covid-19 or other seasonal illnesses. (I say IF, because that's the sort of thing you would expect our intelligence agencies to be looking into with or without orders from the president.)

I don't recall anyone prominent ever saying that the possibility of a lab leak wasn't even worth investigating. The closest to that was the WHO saying a few months ago that it was so improbable that no further investigation was necessary, and it seems than most people take exception to that.

[rogue06]

Something Trump said was dismissed as nonsense?? Say it ain't so!

Looks like that knee-jerk response on the part of the left failed again.

[Stoic]

#4 CCP closely monitoring Who's investigation and keeping them from accessing certain raw data, kind of like a guilty suspect would do to hide their tracks lol.

Probably the most damning evidence is RaTG13, the horseshoe bat coronavirus that is the closest known natural relative to SARS-CoV-2 (after more than a year of searching for something more closely related), which was found in 2013 over 800 miles from Wuhan, and immediately taken to Wuhan for study.

[seanD]

I don't recall anyone prominent ever saying that the possibility of a lab leak wasn't even worth investigating.

Anyone who's interested, Dew Holden documents multiple times the how the MSM vilified and smeared anyone proposing the lab leak theory, and then recently backtracked when Redfield and Gupta made it cool again. Here's just a taste...

[Stoic]

looks like that knee-jerk response on the part of the left failed again for once.

fify

[Stoic]

Anyone who's interested, Dew Holden documents multiple times the how the MSM vilified and smeared anyone proposing the lab leak theory, and then recently backtracked when Redfield and Gupta made it cool again. Here's just a taste...

It's obvious they were ridiculing the idea that the virus was an engineered bioweapon released deliberately.

That may not be what Tom Cotton was claiming, but when you want to make a point that looks suspiciously like a widely circulated conspiracy theory, it's best to highlight how what you are saying is different.