Donald Trump and the Coronavirus

[carpedm9587]

People keep pointing out that the USA has the most covid-19 deaths and that means how poorly Trump is doing. But if you look at a chart based on deaths per capita instead of just raw numbers, the US is doing way better than most other countries in controlling the virus.

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https://ourworldindata.org/coronavirus-data

No - it's not. It's doing better than the 7 countries listed in your graph. Your graph only has 2 countries below the U.S., but there are 195 countries in the world, so your graph says nothing about 185 countries. The fact is, we are currently 20th on that list, so we are doing better than 19 countries and worse than 175. That is how we get to 4.5% of the population, but 30% of the infections. And we used to be 44th on that list...and have been climbing the list steadily. I hope we will never overtake all of them to be first.

And listing countries that have handled things worse than us does not demonstrate that we have done things well. It just demonstrates that we haven't done as poorly as 19 other countries/territories.

BTW, we are now 15th on the list of most deaths per capita (so 180 countries doing better), and 42nd on the list of "most tests per capita." We have been climbing the former list, and holding fairly steady on the latter.

[Sparko]

No - it's not. It's doing better than the 7 countries listed in your graph. Your graph only has 2 countries below the U.S., but there are 195 countries in the world, so your graph says nothing about 185 countries. The fact is, we are currently 20th on that list, so we are doing better than 19 countries and worse than 175. That is how we get to 4.5% of the population, but 30% of the infections. And we used to be 44th on that list...and have been climbing the list steadily. I hope we will never overtake all of them to be first.

And listing countries that have handled things worse than us does not demonstrate that we have done things well. It just demonstrates that we haven't done as poorly as 19 other countries/territories.

BTW, we are now 15th on the list of most deaths per capita (so 180 countries doing better), and 42nd on the list of "most tests per capita." We have been climbing the former list, and holding fairly steady on the latter.

many of the other countries are just now getting the infection (like South America) or have such a low density population that the virus can't spread. It doesn't seem to be taking hold in Africa for instance. But when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most. Nice try though.

[Mountain Man]

many of the other countries are just now getting the infection (like South America) or have such a low density population that the virus can't spread. It doesn't seem to be taking hold in Africa for instance. But when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most. Nice try though.

Come on, man, carpe's schtick from the very beginning has been to whoop and holler about how badly the US is doing because he's hoping that a little pain and fear will encourage people to vote Trump out in November.

[Roy]

many of the other countries are just now getting the infection (like South America) or have such a low density population that the virus can't spread. It doesn't seem to be taking hold in Africa for instance. But when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most.

Which countries are those?

There's only one country - Sweden - with a similar population density to the US and higher covid-19 per capita deaths. Every other country has either a much higher population density than the US, or a lower per capita covid-19 death rate.

[carpedm9587]

many of the other countries are just now getting the infection (like South America) or have such a low density population that the virus can't spread. It doesn't seem to be taking hold in Africa for instance. But when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most. Nice try though.

Sparko - some of the countries/regions down on that list include India, Hong Kong, South Africa, Japan, Russia, Argentina, Singapore, Columbia, Indonesia, Australia, Malaysa, Mexico, Phillipines, S. Korea, Chile, Poland, Brazil, Peru, Greece, Finland, Hungary, Turkey, Canada, Norway, and Germany. I left China off the list because I am still not 100% convinced they are being honest with their numbers. Many of these countries have larger populations than the ones on your graph.

In other words, your graph is purposefully skewed to 10 hand-chosen countries to show the U.S. as "not doing so bad." Add these other countries to the graph and the picture changes.

[carpedm9587]

Which countries are those?

There's only one country - Sweden - with a similar population density to the US and higher covid-19 per capita deaths. Every other country has either a much higher population density than the US, or a lower per capita covid-19 death rate.

Good points. I hadn't thought of it in those terms.

[Sparko]

Which countries are those?

There's only one country - Sweden - with a similar population density to the US and higher covid-19 per capita deaths. Every other country has either a much higher population density than the US, or a lower per capita covid-19 death rate.

So you are saying that population density is the real factor in this, not how the country handles it?

[carpedm9587]

So you are saying that population density is the real factor in this, not how the country handles it?

"A" real factor... not "the" real factor...

That's epidemiology 101

[Roy]

So you are saying that population density is the real factor in this, not how the country handles it?

No, I'm asking you which other countries justify "when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most". What are those "other countries" that the US is supposedly doing better than?

[Roy]

In other words, your graph is purposefully skewed to 10 hand-chosen countries to show the U.S. as "not doing so bad." Add these other countries to the graph and the picture changes.

I doubt it's purposefully skewed - it shows the worst-affected major countries which have relatively reliable reporting mechanisms.

[Sparko]

OK here is a chart showing the USA vs UK, Europe, Asia, Africa, India, etc.

covid continents.jpg

And notice the footnote: Limited testing and challenges in the attribution of the cause of death means that the number of confirmed deaths may not be an accurate count of the true total number of deaths from COVID-19.

The US, UK and Europe have been doing the most and most accurate testing. India for example has not.
The whole spiel that the USA is handing this worse than the rest of the world is nonsense.

[carpedm9587]

OK here is a chart showing the USA vs UK, Europe, Asia, Africa, India, etc.

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And notice the footnote: Limited testing and challenges in the attribution of the cause of death means that the number of confirmed deaths may not be an accurate count of the true total number of deaths from COVID-19.

The US, UK and Europe have been doing the most and most accurate testing. India for example has not.
The whole spiel that the USA is handing this worse than the rest of the world is nonsense.

Who ever said "worse than the rest of the world?"

You appear to be flailing at a strawman of your own creation. We are doing worse than the world average by far, hence 30% of the infections, 20% of the deaths, and 4.5% of the population. If you proceed to break that down by continent or country, we are doing better than some countries (e.g., Spain, Italy) on a per capita basis and worse than a lot of others (e.g., India, South Korea, Japan, Norway, etc.) on the same basis.

And the specific things contributing to our lack of leadership in this have been listed. And the specific person behind the chaos and dysfunction currently occupies the Oval Office - an office he is pretty much completely unsuited for, IMO.

[lilpixieofterror]

Who ever said "worse than the rest of the world?"

You appear to be flailing at a strawman of your own creation. We are doing worse than the world average by far, hence 30% of the infections, 20% of the deaths, and 4.5% of the population. If you proceed to break that down by continent or country, we are doing better than some countries (e.g., Spain, Italy) on a per capita basis and worse than a lot of others (e.g., India, South Korea, Japan, Norway, etc.) on the same basis.

And the specific things contributing to our lack of leadership in this have been listed. And the specific person behind the chaos and dysfunction currently occupies the Oval Office - an office he is pretty much completely unsuited for, IMO.

[Roy]

The whole spiel that the USA is handing this worse than the rest of the world is nonsense.

Then when some-one makes that claim, you can strenuously object. I think many countries are handling it just as poorly.

Meanwhile, you claimed that "when you compare the US with the other countries that have equivalent population densities and where the virus started at around the same time, the USA is doing better than most". What are those "other countries" that the US is supposedly doing better than?

P.S. Your chart above doesn't take into account the date of introduction of the virus. There's a worrying animation here showing how the virus has spread from Jan 22nd onwards as different countries see outbreaks occurring.

[carpedm9587]

Umm...no. Sorry. You can't point to a handful of other countries who are also mismanaging the outbreak and say, "gee...we're doing so well!" The shining stars in this are Germany, S. Korea, and Japan. India is a bit of an enigma right now. Russia was an enigma but they too are spiking.

Meanwhile, infection in the U.S. is rampant and so far we have seen a constant stream of blame, credit-taking, campaigning, and mismanagement, punctuated by a handful of good choices and reasonable decisions.

A person wasting brain cycles, discussion time, and/or resources on "will my name be on the check?" and "look how big my ratings are" and "you know I personally know Tom Brady" is not prioritizing well.