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Does Socialism align with Scripture?

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
    Christ: "Sell everything you own and give to the poor" (Mat 19:21 / Luke 18:22)

    Money, wealth, and poverty is together pretty close to the biggest topic of Jesus' teachings as recorded in the gospels. He certainly told you what to do, indeed, and spent a lot of his time on it. Guess he thought it was important.

    He followed up the above verse with the comment: "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God. Indeed, it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24 / Luke 18:24-25). Unsurprisingly, the one time he tells a story about someone being in hell and someone else being in heaven, the difference is that the man in hell was rich during his life and the one in heaven was poor (Luke 16:19-31). Likewise the one time he gives a detailed depiction of the final judgment, the criteria he lists for the decision as to whether the person goes to heaven or hell are whether they helped the poor and needy or not (Mat 25:31-46).

    Going through all the many and various other commandments and encouragements and teachings Jesus gave on the topic of wealth and sharing it with the poor, would take a John Reece length thread of posts. Suffice it to say that Jesus seemed to think money being transferred from the rich who had excess to the poor and those in need, was utterly crucial, and that one's afterlife depended on it.

    Paul, likewise, shows a strong interest in this topic, apparently dedicating a lot of his time and effort into collecting money from the richer churches to redistribute to the poorer ones. He writes that when he met Peter and other apostles, they "asked only one thing, that we remember the poor, which was actually what I was eager to do" (Gal 2:10). Each church gave according to its ability and the money was redistributed to others according to their need. Sound familiar?
    I like how Starlight claims to be an expert in the Bible, but says mind numbly stupid things, such as the above. How much of your stuff did you sell off and give away, in your Christian days?
    "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
    GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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    • #62
      Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
      I like how Starlight claims to be an expert in the Bible, but says mind numbly stupid things, such as the above. How much of your stuff did you sell off and give away, in your Christian days?
      How do we integrate what Christ said into our lives?

      Can we, as Christians take the Lord's words lightly?

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      • #63
        Originally posted by simplicio View Post
        How do we integrate what Christ said into our lives?

        Can we, as Christians take the Lord's words lightly?
        Have you sold everything you own yet? Why not?
        "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
        GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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        • #64
          Originally posted by lilpixieofterror View Post
          Have you sold everything you own yet? Why not?
          How do you interpret that verse, integrate it into the Christian life?

          It is a question. And curiously, any question on the verse does not generat discussion, rather the precisely same response.

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          • #65
            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
            How do you interpret that verse, integrate it into the Christian life?

            It is a question. And curiously, any question on the verse does not generat discussion, rather the precisely same response.
            "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
            GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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            • #66
              Originally posted by Timothy View Post
              Okay Edited by a Moderator. No. It doesn't say you are killed or arrested. Jerk. And neither did I, Edited by a Moderator.

              Moderated By: QuantaFille

              Watch your language.

              ***If you wish to take issue with this notice DO NOT do so in this thread.***
              Contact the forum moderator or an administrator in Private Message or email instead. If you feel you must publicly complain or whine, please take it to the Padded Room unless told otherwise.

              Timothy, please leave my thread.

              other people, please stop responding to Timothy at this point. Thank you.

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              • #67
                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                Oh, really? When did you come to that conclusion? Duh!
                Since I own the dang site?

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                • #68
                  I don't see this as necessarily a defense of Starlight, who is quite able to articulate his own ideas. However, his arguments generally do not approach the topic from a Christian perspective.

                  Do you have so little an understanding of the Christian faith that you can't tackle the questions?

                  Starlight raised that verse in response to the assertion that "Christ told us what to do"!
                  Last edited by simplicio; 03-10-2020, 07:15 AM.

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                    The bible doesn't advocate for that distinction, it's something you're bringing to it and reading into it. There's pretty much nothing in the bible about the comparative value of free and voluntary action verses forced-to-do-it.

                    No. You seem to really believe that, but it's just plain straight out not true.

                    The vast majority of people I have encountered who advocate for socialist or socialist principles do so because they genuinely care about the plight of those in need. It's based on love and compassion. It's literally that simple.

                    You all seem really really concerned about the idea that someone might take your money from you, and seem obsessed that it's yours. The traits that come across clearly from you making this the focus of your concerns are greed, selfishness, and love of money. The greed I see here in your post and over and over again among the conservatives in this forum is the selfish love of your own money. Capitalism, is, of course, famously all about greed and tends toward the view that 'greed is good'. Accusing socialists of being greedy seems to me to be projection.


                    Of course it is envy. They see rich people and they envy what they have and claim the rich people are the reason they are poor. Just because someone is rich doesn't mean they stole the money from the poor. They are making wealth, not stealing it. Creating new products that people buy, employing people to help create them. All socialism wants to do is tear down those that have more. They want shared misery. That is envy. They want what others have earned.



                    As a socialist I don't want your money or think I should have it. I think the excess wealth of the rich should go to the poor, which isn't me. There's no greed on my part involved. It's a concern for the poor, for the needy, and to right injustices that's the motivation.
                    Oh so stealing from the rich to give to someone ELSE is OK? LOL. That is still envy and greed. If you want to give your own money, that IS Altruistic, but picking someone else's pocket to help someone else, that's just thievery based on envy.
                    Last edited by Sparko; 03-10-2020, 07:20 AM.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                      Since I own the dang site?
                      Which gives you the ability to act arbitrarily.

                      How do your responses here compare with your previous responses here?

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by Starlight View Post
                        They were killed for their failure to obey the rules of giving all they had. Pretty sure that wasn't voluntary, and is a rather extreme level of force!

                        Well Ananias and Saphira are in Acts 5. You're aware they were killed for not conforming?

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                          Which gives you the ability to act arbitrarily.

                          How do your responses here compare with your previous responses here?
                          What the heck are you going on about now? How is your response relevant to Timothy complaining about people arguing with him on a debate site?

                          Comment


                          • #73
                            Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                            Is there any "free market" and private sector solution to an epidemic?

                            The Chinese built hospitals to meet the need with lightening speed. And yes, they also used oppressive measure to meet political needs. But the fact remains that they did provide an immediate and effective response; their model is being studied by the west, the strengths and weaknesses.

                            Can the US provide an effective response while maintaining things like liberties?
                            You mean like this?

                            Coronavirus: Ten dead in China quarantine hotel collapse

                            At least 10 people are dead and 23 remain missing after a hotel being used as a coronavirus quarantine facility in the Chinese city of Quanzhou collapsed on Saturday.
                            https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51787936

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                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                              What the heck are you going on about now? How is your response relevant to Timothy complaining about people arguing with him on a debate site?
                              Which brings us back to your previously expressed views.

                              I distinctly remember you expressing views on the limits of this debate site, which sounded surprisingly similar to Tomothy's. But I suppose that is different.

                              Comment


                              • #75
                                Originally posted by simplicio View Post
                                I don't see this as necessarily a defense of Starlight, who is quite able to articulate his own ideas. However, his arguments generally do not approach the topic from a Christian perspective.

                                Do you have so little an understanding of the Christian faith that you can't tackle the questions?

                                Starlight raised that verse in response to the assertion that "Christ told us what to do"!
                                "The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
                                GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy

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