Coronavirus Outbreak...

[firstfloor]

Good for him. The "science" guys on the Kung Flu task force are not the only ones who matter. If they extend this debacle to the twelve weeks some have suggested, neither the economy nor society as a whole will *ever* recover.

While the rest of the world will be getting back to a new normal, the USA is going to be quarantined for a surprisingly long time. You will be like a leper colony.

[carpedm9587]

It's not at all surprising to me you haven't heard of it. Why do you think Dems constantly bring up fake stories to bolster the "Orange Man bad" narrative (like the fake claim he cut the CDC budget, to name just one, or the whole what he meant by "hoax" great debate), yet totally ignore REAL actions like this? Other than Political, Rolling Stone, and some other smaller news networks, I've not seen one story in the MSM about this. What the DOJ is trying to do seems like it has nothing to do with the crisis and seems like something you can legitimately criticize the president for, yet they remain silent. Why is that?

So, first, while I'm sure there are some Dems who pushed the "cut the CDC budget" narrative, the vast majority of stories I saw said exactly what happened: that Trump's budget proposed sweeping cuts to the CDC and those cuts were not enacted by Congress. As for the "hoax," it seems clear to me, and it was clear in the articles that I saw, that Trump clearly used the term "hoax" in reference to the degree to which he felt the Dems were "hyping" the virus. I never saw him call the virus itself a hoax and I did not see any major news outlets report that he did. That being said, I don't read everything published by every news outlet.

As for why this one has not made headlines and is limited to further-left outlets, it may well be that no major outlet has been able to substantiate the report or that the general report is being blown out of proportion by the further left-leaning outlets. Politico leans pretty strongly left. Also, the article in Politico talks about the requests having implications for Habeas Corpus. They don't say they have out and out requested a suspension of Habeus Corpus. Finally, as you note, it has little chance of passing a Democratic house. Ultimately, it may simply not have risen on the radar to the level of "stories that will get eyes."

[carpedm9587]

Good for him. The "science" guys on the Kung Flu task force are not the only ones who matter. If they extend this debacle to the twelve weeks some have suggested, neither the economy nor society as a whole will *ever* recover.

How do you establish that this claim is true. Couldn't we just as easily claim that if the U.S> returns to work and suffers widespread passing of this virus, it runs the risk of being internationally isolated, ending up with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths, and straining the healthcare system to the breaking point. If the rest of the world contains this and the U.S. does not, the consequences could be far more long term, right?

Note - India has just ordered a nationwide lockdown - 1.3B people.

[oxmixmudd]

It's not at all surprising to me you haven't heard of it. Why do you think Dems constantly bring up fake stories to bolster the "Orange Man bad" narrative (like the fake claim he cut the CDC budget, to name just one, or the whole what he meant by "hoax" great debate), yet totally ignore REAL actions like this? Other than Political, Rolling Stone, and some other smaller news networks, I've not seen one story in the MSM about this. What the DOJ is trying to do seems like it has nothing to do with the crisis and seems like something you can legitimately criticize the president for, yet they remain silent. Why is that?

hmmm ... who is driving the DOJ?

[oxmixmudd]

How do you establish that this claim is true. Couldn't we just as easily claim that if the U.S> returns to work and suffers widespread passing of this virus, it runs the risk of being internationally isolated, ending up with hundreds of thousands (if not millions) of deaths, and straining the healthcare system to the breaking point. If the rest of the world contains this and the U.S. does not, the consequences could be far more long term, right?

Note - India has just ordered a nationwide lockdown - 1.3B people.

Good point. It will not be easy to balance the impact of the lockdown(s) and the devastation of the virus itself.

But one thing is sure. Pretending things will be 'ok' and ignoring the data and the science is an almost guaranteed means finding ourselves confronted with total failure.

The problem here is not that Trump is wrong to be concerned about the economy and to look for ways to avoid killing it. The problem is he will ignore anyone and everyone that has the knowledge required to construct a viable path through this situation.

[seanD]

So, first, while I'm sure there are some Dems who pushed the "cut the CDC budget" narrative, the vast majority of stories I saw said exactly what happened: that Trump's budget proposed sweeping cuts to the CDC and those cuts were not enacted by Congress. As for the "hoax," it seems clear to me, and it was clear in the articles that I saw, that Trump clearly used the term "hoax" in reference to the degree to which he felt the Dems were "hyping" the virus. I never saw him call the virus itself a hoax and I did not see any major news outlets report that he did. That being said, I don't read everything published by every news outlet.

As for why this one has not made headlines and is limited to further-left outlets, it may well be that no major outlet has been able to substantiate the report or that the general report is being blown out of proportion by the further left-leaning outlets. Politico leans pretty strongly left. Also, the article in Politico talks about the requests having implications for Habeas Corpus. They don't say they have out and out requested a suspension of Habeus Corpus. Finally, as you note, it has little chance of passing a Democratic house. Ultimately, it may simply not have risen on the radar to the level of "stories that will get eyes."

This argument that they haven't "been able to substantiate the report" is not at all convincing relative to the things they do push, including trivial and unsubstantiated stories, to keep the Orange Man bad narrative going. Considering the weight and importance of this action, considering that Politico is fairly reputable, and considering they could easily get Congress people off the record to comment about it (their infamous "sources say" they always use as a credible source for past stories about the president) makes this argument even less convincing.

[Mountain Man]

I guess we're back to the "chicken little" narrative. Oh well. For a short while, Trump was listening to his scientific advisers, and his base appeared to drop the theme. Now he's apparently reconsidering and his base is apparently falling right in line.

Seriously, what are you talking about? It is a fact that early case mortality rates for epidemics/pandemics are always high early on until folks get a handle on exactly what they're dealing with, and then the numbers drop, often substantially, to more realistic levels.

Why do I get the feeling you're almost disappointed that things may not be as bad as initially reported?

[Mountain Man]

What you, and rogue, and MM (and others) completely fail to understand is that I'm about the truth, and what is right. Period.

The problem is that you often seem to be under the false assumption that your opinion at any given moment is necessarily true and right.

[oxmixmudd]

The problem is that you often seem to be under the false assumption that your opinion at any given moment is necessarily true and right.

Well yes, if there is sufficient evidence from which to form a strong opinion, I will tend to think it is correct.

In case you hadn't noticed, you are at least equally convinced your own opinions are correct.

The difference is I'm basing my opinion on the evidence and fact, and as a consequence my opinion is actually more than my own. And consequently, it also can then be changed by more complete or new evidence should such evidence come to light.

As I have demonstrated multiple times over the years here on TWEB.

[oxmixmudd]

So, first, while I'm sure there are some Dems who pushed the "cut the CDC budget" narrative, the vast majority of stories I saw said exactly what happened: that Trump's budget proposed sweeping cuts to the CDC and those cuts were not enacted by Congress. As for the "hoax," it seems clear to me, and it was clear in the articles that I saw, that Trump clearly used the term "hoax" in reference to the degree to which he felt the Dems were "hyping" the virus. I never saw him call the virus itself a hoax and I did not see any major news outlets report that he did. That being said, I don't read everything published by every news outlet.

As for why this one has not made headlines and is limited to further-left outlets, it may well be that no major outlet has been able to substantiate the report or that the general report is being blown out of proportion by the further left-leaning outlets. Politico leans pretty strongly left. Also, the article in Politico talks about the requests having implications for Habeas Corpus. They don't say they have out and out requested a suspension of Habeus Corpus. Finally, as you note, it has little chance of passing a Democratic house. Ultimately, it may simply not have risen on the radar to the level of "stories that will get eyes."

I do hope it is some sort of far left nuttery rather than fact. Nevertheless, I'm wondering how he can perceive that as somehow not incriminating Barr and the DOJ itself if it is true? Trump and Barr would be driving this if it was real - yes?

[firstfloor]

[JimL]

Which is what certain experts have been saying all along, but that didn't fit the liberal "Let's hype the fear factor in order to hurt President Trump!" narrative, so it has been downplayed to a great extent.

Nearly 800 people died in a 24 hour period in Italy recently. If you can't test, treat, or contain the virus because of lack of medical equiptment, which is what is happening in the U.S. right now, then that is where the U.S. is heading as well. It isn't about hype or fear factor, it's about common sense and dealing with the facts. The wishful thinking of a stable genius isn't cutting it.

[oxmixmudd]

my point was a few days ago that rate was about half that^* - just 0.25%. the slopes of the logarithmic death and active cases curves are different, and the mortality rate will likely continue to rise more in line with that seen in other countries.

Time will show, but I am assuming their low death rate is more a result of high testing while the course of the disease through the population is still relatively new, much as in S. Korea. A few weeks ago, S.Korea also was well below 1%, but as more and more people traversed the entire course of the disease, it rose and is now at 1.3%, a more typical number for a country were the disease is contained and the number of serious and critical cases has not overwhelmed the medical system (e.g. areas of china outside Wuhan)

Jim

* (The most recent numbers put it at 0.48%)

[seanD]

I do hope it is some sort of far left nuttery rather than fact. Nevertheless, I'm wondering how he can perceive that as somehow not incriminating Barr and the DOJ itself if it is true? Trump and Barr would be driving this if it was real - yes?

What are you just stupid, or is your TDS affecting your reading comprehension?

What the DOJ is trying to do seems like it has nothing to do with the crisis and seems like something you can legitimately criticize the president for, yet they remain silent. Why is that?

[Mountain Man]

In case you hadn't noticed, you are at least equally convinced your own opinions are correct.

Oh, no, you are far beyond me in that regard, and a heavy dose of confirmation bias has kept you repeating certain false claims about Trump and members of his administration despite contrary evidence.