Coronavirus Outbreak...

[shunyadragon]

First, it would help to put the coronavirus in context with the history of the flu.



Yes, we need to respond to control the coronavirus out break, but the efforts can be limited, because many if not most walk around without showing symptoms. It's history will be similar to flus and it will likely be with us like flu in cycles in the future. There will be more infected and more deaths worldwide including the USA. The facts are the current trends in death rate are lower than the flu in previous years, and nothing remotely close to the ~50,000,000 deaths in the 1917-1919 flu.

The best we can do is develop the vaccine, use common sense measures to control the spread, and also reject the trend of Trump;s efforts in reducing the funding to the agencies responsible for controlling these diseases and increase their funding.

[Mountain Man]

I didn't say he explicitly called it a hoax. What he did was to imply that the outbreak of the virus wasn't that serious and that the media and the democrats were politicising and hyping the issue by criticizing his pathetic handling of it. In other words he was calling the criticism of his administrations handling of it a hoax, which is tantamount to calling the seriousness of the coronavirus itself a hoax.

"It's going to disappear, one day, it's like a miracle, it will disappear." He also said that there are 15 cases in the U.S, (actually there were 60 cases at the time) and that the 15 would soon be down to 3 or 4." He's either an idiot, or both an idiot and a lying con man.

Sources, Jimmy. I'm not just going to take your word for it.

[Darfius]

ACC Clinical Bulletin Cardiac Implications of Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Although the overall mortality rate remains low, published reports from China may indicate elevated mortality risk for diabetics, hypertensives, patients with underlying cardiovascular disease, and the elderlyincreases the likelihood of a worldwide pandemicEarly case reports suggest patients with underlying conditions are at higher risk for complications or mortality from COVID-19 53% of all COVID-19 confirmed patients in the study were missing documentation of underlying conditions
Overall the case mortality rate remains low at 2.3%; however, the mortality rate jumps to 6% in hypertensives, 7.3% in diabetics, 10.5% in patients with cardiovascular disease, and 14.8% for patients ≥ 80 years of age

What a disgusting display of "hysteria" from the American College of Cardiology, right, Mountain Man? By the way, the average case fatality rate for the seasonal flu is .1%. Is 14% a bigger number than .1%? My hysteria is preventing me from grasping basic math.

[RumTumTugger]

Sources, Jimmy. I'm not just going to take your word for it.

Nor should you be expected to MM but for some reason JimL being an arrogant fool thinks he's special and doesn't need to cite his sources.

JimL you are not special CITE YOUR SOURCES or admit you or your leftist handlers whom you get your talking points from have made this out of whole cloth or we can go on knowing you are a dishonest fool who refuses to think for himself.

[MaxVel]

Could the people who want to argue about American politics please take it to another thread?

Could we keep this thread for information about the Covid 19 pandemic as it develops? Some of us are dealing with Covid infections in the actual places we live.


I agree with Darfuis - it looks to be significantly more dangerous than the seasonal flu, especially if patients have other conditions. Levels of care available (especially if there are large numbers of infected people in one area) may also affect fatality rates.

That said, I think there is a fair bit of over-reaction, maybe because of the extreme measures China adopted.

[Mountain Man]

ACC Clinical Bulletin Cardiac Implications of Novel Coronavirus (COVID-19)

Although the overall mortality rate remains low, published reports from China may indicate elevated mortality risk for diabetics, hypertensives, patients with underlying cardiovascular disease, and the elderlyincreases the likelihood of a worldwide pandemicEarly case reports suggest patients with underlying conditions are at higher risk for complications or mortality from COVID-19 53% of all COVID-19 confirmed patients in the study were missing documentation of underlying conditions
Overall the case mortality rate remains low at 2.3%; however, the mortality rate jumps to 6% in hypertensives, 7.3% in diabetics, 10.5% in patients with cardiovascular disease, and 14.8% for patients ≥ 80 years of age

What a disgusting display of "hysteria" from the American College of Cardiology, right, Mountain Man? By the way, the average case fatality rate for the seasonal flu is .1%. Is 14% a bigger number than .1%? My hysteria is preventing me from grasping basic math.

That's good information, soberly and professionally presented. Perhaps you should actually read it and comprehend instead of pulling a Chicken Little routine. It says right there that the mortality rate is "low at 2.3%". Remember, this is talking about worldwide. The .1% morality rate for the seasonal flu that you quoted is for just the US, so you're not comparing apples to apples. Also, older people and people in already poor health are at a higher risk, which is to be expected.

To put things into perspective:

So far, the new coronavirus, dubbed COVID-19, has led to more than 75,000 illnesses and 2,000 deaths, primarily in mainland China. But that's nothing compared with the flu, also called influenza. In the U.S. alone, the flu has already caused an estimated 26 million illnesses, 250,000 hospitalizations and 14,000 deaths this season, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

https://www.livescience.com/new-coro...-with-flu.html

Worldwide, nearly half-a-million people died from the flu in 2017.

The primary concern at the moment seems to be that COVID-19 is a relative unknown, so unlike the common flu, doctors can't easily predict exactly how this is going to play out, but all indications are that it's really no worse than anything else we've dealt with recently.

[Mountain Man]

I agree with Darfuis - it looks to be significantly more dangerous than the seasonal flu, especially if patients have other conditions.

Statistically, it's not. More information about the seasonal flu from the CDC:

During the 2017-2018 season, the percentage of deaths attributed to pneumonia and influenza (P&I) was at or above the epidemic threshold for 16 consecutive weeks. During the past five seasons, the average number of weeks this indicator was above threshold was 11 (range of 7 to 15 weeks). Nationally, mortality attributed to P&I exceeded 10.0% for four consecutive weeks, peaking at 10.8% during the week ending January 20, 2018.

https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/season...-2017-2018.htm

[Tassman]

Where did Trump say this?

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

And Don Jr:

" for them to try to take a pandemic and seemingly hope that it comes here, and kills millions of people so that they could end Donald Trump's streak of winning, is a new level of sickness. You know, I don't know if this is coronavirus or Trump derangement syndrome, but these people are infected badly.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/p...ats/index.html

And where did I agree with it?

My impression is that MM thinks Trump can do no wrong. Am I mistaken?

[Starlight]

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

He seems to have got that from Limbaugh via Don Jr.

Limbaugh was busy telling his listeners it was all a democrat hoax, then within a couple of days there'd been the outbreak in the US and Trump had appointed Pence to head the taskforce, and then Limbaugh was interviewing Pence on how Pence was going to do great things to solve the problem with MAGAness.

I guess fortunately for Limbaugh his listeners are senile and can't remember anything from his show 2 days earlier.

In general the right-wing lunatics can't seem to make up their mind which conspiracy theory to hold... It's a Chinese Bioweapon. No, it's a Democratic hoax to defeat Trump. No, it's real and Trump/Pence will save us. No, it's an ineffective virus that's no worse than the common flu. The crazies can't seem to get their crazy straight. But I guess that's what I've come to expect from US right-wingers.

[rogue06]

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

And Don Jr:

" for them to try to take a pandemic and seemingly hope that it comes here, and kills millions of people so that they could end Donald Trump's streak of winning, is a new level of sickness. You know, I don't know if this is coronavirus or Trump derangement syndrome, but these people are infected badly.

https://edition.cnn.com/2020/02/28/p...ats/index.html

Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...

[Tassman]

Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...

It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.

[simplicio]

It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.

hmmm

Considering that we actually DO have elements among the MSM and the Democrats (sorry about the redundancy) seeking to blame Trump for the Coronavirus, and actually hoping it is bad so that it'll adversely affect Trump in the 2020 election...

He seems to have got that from Limbaugh via Don Jr. ...................................

In general the right-wing lunatics can't seem to make up their mind which conspiracy theory to hold... It's a Chinese Bioweapon. No, it's a Democratic hoax to defeat Trump. No, it's real and Trump/Pence will save us. No, it's an ineffective virus that's no worse than the common flu. The crazies can't seem to get their crazy straight. But I guess that's what I've come to expect from US right-wingers.

Keep all those conspiracies close, so the appropriate one can be picked up and used. And then deny that anyone actually held those other views.

Doncha know the Dems want to destroy the US. Hey, the Dems want Trump to get in a war with the Iranians.....

The question is whether these (conspiracy) ideas are ideas formed from political views or formed from religious views.

[lilpixieofterror]

What he said was that the media and the democrats response to the issue was all a hoax to bring him down. He's implying that the outbreak isn't all that serious, that his administration is doing a great job and that the drop in the stock market is due to the media, and the democrats of course, or in other words, that it's all a hoax. Fact is the Administrations response has been pathetic. He cut the funding for the containment of such outbreaks in the first place, and then he placed no nothing loyalists in charge of health and disease control organizations. He said it'll go away, like a miracle, probably in April.

How many disease were supposed to have killed us all?

[Mountain Man]

https://www.vox.com/2020/2/29/211592...na-first-death

What you claimed:

As far as Trump is concerned, the coronavirus pandemic is all a devious plot to undermine him.

Your source does not support your claim.

Here's what Trump said in context (since VOX didn't bother to provide a complete quote):

So obviously, he's not saying the virus itself is a hoax but that the Democrats' attempt to politicize it and claim that his administration is unprepared or botching the response is the hoax. On the contrary, Trump is taking it very seriously:

"We are magnificently organized with the best professionals in the world. We have to take it very, very seriously ... We are preparing for the worst. My administration has taken the most aggressive action in modern history to prevent the spread of this illness in the United States. We are ready. We are ready. Totally ready."

[Mountain Man]

It is one thing to criticize Trump for the lack of preparedness and funding and the dismantling of teams of experts set in place by Obama. It's quite another thing to claim that Dems have been rooting for Americans to die en masse so Trump will lose office as a consequence. It's disturbing that Trump and his supporters can even think this.

Except the Democrats actually are trying to blame Trump, as I mentioned earlier in the thread:

Democrats are already ratcheting up their "Trump didn't do enough to stop the virus" narrative.

https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2...s-is-too-late/

So Trump isn't doing enough. But if he suggests closing the border, it's just a "scare tactic". Gotta love Democrat logic.

Then there's Shifty Adam Schiff:

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/sch...olitical-fight

And the disreputable New York Times has attempted to coin the term "Trumpvirus" when talking about the illness, leaving little doubt who they want to take the fall if Trump can't perform miracles and stop the virus in its tracks.

So it's not an exaggeration that Democrats and liberals in general are morbidly hoping for a worst case scenario they can use against Trump. Heck, we've seen it in this forum with our resident liberals promulgating the false narrative that the White House has curtailed the CDC's ability to respond, a claim which was debunked by both Breitbart and the Associated Press.