Coronavirus Outbreak...

[JimL]

Jim, this is not the first time China has sent us a deadly virus. How many more do we need? And it is right and good to blame China. And haven't you been criticizing Trump through this whole thing?

The world knows that China is responsible for their initial cover-up of the outbreak, and everyone knows that Trump is responsible for his downplaying of it and his lack of response early on. Trump can blame China all he wants, they deserve the criticism, and so does he for his handling of it. Viruses are out there, they're going to happen, but everyone has to do the right thing in response in order to mitigate the damage. Criticism is necessary for that, and they both deserve critisism. But more importantly, as Jim put it, ultimately we all need to work together to beat this thing and perhaps to learn from it.

[seer]

Seer - we are just as culpable as china on so many fronts just like this one. Each nation has elements of culture that present a potential danger to themselves and others.

This is a stupid path to follow. We need to work together, not create more tension between nations.

Really Jim, when was the last time the US knowingly sent a deadly virus to the rest of the world?

[carpedm9587]

Really Jim, when was the last time the US knowingly sent a deadly virus to the rest of the world?

So the key to your sentence is "knowingly." I know of no evidence that CHina "knowingly sent" the virus to the U.S. If you have such evidence, please present it. We do have evidence that they mismanaged the outbreak, allowing it to spread beyond its borders.

If you are generally looking for a comparable case, you need look no further than the 2009 swine flu outbreak, which was first detected in the U.S. and escaped our borders to kill over half a million people worldwide. No intentional spreading can be shown there either. Unlike China, however, I know of no effort to cover-up or deny the outbreak. It simply exceeded containment and the U.S. "infected" the world.

I can hear the arguments now...that was Obama's shift...so we'll be right back into the "what about Obama" narrative...

[simplicio]

Really Jim, when was the last time the US knowingly sent a deadly virus to the rest of the world?

Oh. China "knowingly sent a virus to the rest of the world"!

[simplicio]

Really Jim, when was the last time the US knowingly sent a deadly virus to the rest of the world?

Quite a spin there. Chuchk Yaeger would lose his lunch.

[carpedm9587]

Quite a spin there. Chuchk Yaeger would lose his lunch.

Where have I heard that before? Hmmmm....

[seer]

So the key to your sentence is "knowingly." I know of no evidence that CHina "knowingly sent" the virus to the U.S. If you have such evidence, please present it. We do have evidence that they mismanaged the outbreak, allowing it to spread beyond its borders.

If you are generally looking for a comparable case, you need look no further than the 2009 swine flu outbreak, which was first detected in the U.S. and escaped our borders to kill over half a million people worldwide. No intentional spreading can be shown there either. Unlike China, however, I know of no effort to cover-up or deny the outbreak. It simply exceeded containment and the U.S. "infected" the world.

I can hear the arguments now...that was Obama's shift...so we'll be right back into the "what about Obama" narrative...

The Swine flu came from Mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_f...emic_in_Mexico

And of course China knowingly allowed the spread. Read the two links I referenced.

[rogue06]

First, since my wife is Italian, I recognize "guido" for the ethnic slur that it is, which doesn't reflect very well on you.

Perhaps you should tell that to Guido Silvestri the Chief of the Division of Microbiology and Immunology at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center and part of Emory University

Or Guido Calabresi the former Dean of Yale Law School and current Senior Circuit Judge of the U. S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

Or Guido d'Arezzo the musical theorist responsible for the development of modern Western musical notation.

Or maybe Guido Tarone the Director of the Department of Molecular Biotechnology and Health Sciences at the University of Turin

Moreover, I mistakenly called him "Guido" when I should have called him "Fredo"^[1][2]. His behavior was far more insulting to Italians what with acting like the stereotypical hot headed violent Italian right out of typecasting for a movie from the 40s.







1. I actually typed guido and godfather into the Google and got a hit but didn't check further as I thought it confirmed that was the name of the character. It turns out that it was the name of a minor character, Guido Quintana a mayor in Palermo, Sicily.

2. A contention contested in Vox, National Review and BBC. Even his defenders like Edward Falco admitted that his comparison went "overboard."

[seer]

Oh. China "knowingly sent a virus to the rest of the world"!

and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks. More perniciously, the Chinese government censored and detained those brave doctors and whistleblowers who attempted to sound the alarm and warn their fellow citizens when they understood the gravity of what was to come.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

[simplicio]

Perhaps you should tell that to Guido Silvestri the Chief of the Division of Microbiology and Immunology at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center and part of Emory University

Or Guido Calabresi the former Dean of Yale Law School and current Senior Circuit Judge of the U. S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

Or Guido d'Arezzo the musical theorist responsible for the development of modern Western musical notation.

Or maybe Guido Tarone the Director of the Department of Molecular Biotechnology and Health Sciences at the University of Turin

Moreover, I mistakenly called him "Guido" when I should have called him "Fredo"^[1][2]. His behavior was far more insulting to Italians what with acting like the stereotypical hot headed violent Italian right out of typecasting for a movie from the 40s.







1. I actually typed guido and godfather into the Google and got a hit but didn't check further as I thought it confirmed that was the name of the character. It turns out that it was the name of a minor character, Guido Quintana a mayor in Palermo, Sicily.

2. A contention contested in Vox, National Review and BBC. Even his defenders like Edward Falco admitted that his comparison went "overboard."

Yes, the "It has another usage, so therefore it can't be bad" argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

[rogue06]

Yes, the "It has another usage, so therefore it can't be bad" argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

It's a very common Italian name. Are you saying that Italian parents are deliberately insulting their children by naming them Guido? Or is it that you think that Italians aren't bright enough to realize it is a common slur?

[carpedm9587]

The Swine flu came from Mexico: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2009_f...emic_in_Mexico

And of course China knowingly allowed the spread. Read the two links I referenced.

Did you even read the box at the top of the page, Seer? My information came from here, and they cite the CDC as their source. I didn't try to chase it down on the CDC website, of course, but I have a bit more confidence in this source than a Wikipedia page with a warning at the top that says the page has numerous problems, including information accuracy.

And I did read the two links. They support the position that China mismanaged the outbreak and attempted to cover it up. They support the opinion that China permits food practices that are unsafe for its people. They do not support the opinion that they knowingly and intentionally sent it abroad to other countries. You have to add that interpretation to the articles.

[seer]

And I did read the two links. They support the position that China mismanaged the outbreak and attempted to cover it up. They support the opinion that China permits food practices that are unsafe for its people. They do not support the opinion that they knowingly and intentionally sent it abroad to other countries. You have to add that interpretation to the articles.

and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks. More perniciously, the Chinese government censored and detained those brave doctors and whistleblowers who attempted to sound the alarm and warn their fellow citizens when they understood the gravity of what was to come.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

[carpedm9587]

Perhaps you should tell that to Guido Silvestri the Chief of the Division of Microbiology and Immunology at the Yerkes National Primate Research Center and part of Emory University

Or Guido Calabresi the former Dean of Yale Law School and current Senior Circuit Judge of the U. S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals.

Or Guido d'Arezzo the musical theorist responsible for the development of modern Western musical notation.

Or maybe Guido Tarone the Director of the Department of Molecular Biotechnology and Health Sciences at the University of Turin

Moreover, I mistakenly called him "Guido" when I should have called him "Fredo"^[1][2]. His behavior was far more insulting to Italians what with acting like the stereotypical hot headed violent Italian right out of typecasting for a movie from the 40s.


1. I actually typed guido and godfather into the Google and got a hit but didn't check further as I thought it confirmed that was the name of the character. It turns out that it was the name of a minor character, Guido Quintana a mayor in Palermo, Sicily.

2. A contention contested in Vox, National Review and BBC. Even his defenders like Edward Falco admitted that his comparison went "overboard."

There is a difference between a person named "Guido" (and why any Italian mother would so name their child I will never know) and "guido" used as an ethnic slur, as you did.

Guido is a slang term for a lower-class or working-class urban Italian American. The guido stereotype is multi-faceted. Originally, it was used as a demeaning term for Italian Americans in general. More recently, it has come to refer to Italian Americans who conduct themselves in a thuggish, overtly macho manner.

https://www.definitions.net/definition/GUIDO

You can also look at both of these, which tell the same story:

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=guido

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guido_(slang)

Most (all?) Italians I know, which includes my entire extended family on my wife's side, would not take kindly to being called a "guido." Out of curiosity, I pinged several of them this morning and asked how they would react/respond to be called "guido." The response was pretty strongly in the negative across the board. But I am not surprised that you both use it (unnecessarily) and defend its use. As I predicted...

I'll leave the last word to you. Bigotry discussions on this forum are largely pointless.

[carpedm9587]

and allowing it to spread unchecked in the crucial early days and weeks, the regime imperiled not only its own country and its own citizens but also the more than 100 nations now facing their own potentially devastating outbreaks. More perniciously, the Chinese government censored and detained those brave doctors and whistleblowers who attempted to sound the alarm and warn their fellow citizens when they understood the gravity of what was to come.

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/ar...-blame/608332/

Yep - I read it. I stand by my observation: they covered up and they mismanaged. That created a risk that then spilled over into other countries. There is nothing here that says "knowingly sent to the U.S." or even implies it. You are adding that interpretation to the article, leaving the impression that China's goal was to infect other countries when, for all we know, it was to protect it's own image worldwide because they believed they could "control it" and it would "go away magically." Sound familiar?

I noticed you also cut out and did not respond to the first part of my post.