Coronavirus Outbreak...

[rogue06]

Essentially nearly the entire world is (correctly) blaming China, not just Trump.

The indisputable fact is that for the first six weeks they suppressed and punished those who were telling the truth about what was happening. Dr. Li Wenliang, the Chinese whistleblower^[1] who tried to issue the first warning about the coronavirus, was arrested and placed under house arrest and then died -- supposedly of the disease. The Chinese government also claims his colleague Mei Zhongming has also died, again supposedly of it as well.

Further, they refused outside assistance and wouldn't share the virus so it could be studied.

This pandemic is dramatically worse due to the Chinese government's behavior. Those in China who have noted this have vanished from sight, just like the now deceased whistleblower and his colleague. Anyone who mentions any of this outside the country gets branded as being a xenophobe and racist by the Chicoms and their stooges here. The Chinese government was and still is far concerned about their image than fighting this deadly disease.




1. An actual whistleblower, not someone spreading gossip he heard second or third hand.

Case in point: Chinese Tycoon Who Criticized Xi's Response to Coronavirus Has Vanished: Ren Zhiqiang appears to be the latest government critic silenced by the Communist Party as it cracks down on dissent over the epidemic

I wonder if the Chicoms will be announcing that he died of the coronavirus despite "heroic efforts" to save him just like some other critics.

[Abigail]

What is Borisland?

We In U.K. are apparently going to be asking all over 70s to confine to home Even if they are well. This is not immediate but is to be expected soon. Government is also instructing Rolls Royce, JCB and other manufacturers to make ventilators.

[rogue06]

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wire...aised-69594177

In short, Trump dissolved the White House's pandemic team because he had no idea he might need a pandemic team.

As repeatedly noted the MSM is determined to keep spreading these thoroughly debunked claims so your finding a source that continues to disseminate them is hardly surprising.

[carpedm9587]

²

Actually - if the comparison is done correctly, they CAN be compared. Even your numbers above show this, though some of your numbers are wrong. According to the last census, 84% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas, not 50%. With a population of 327M (approx), that's over 274M people living in concentrated areas. Yes, it is harder to test people that are more spread out, but then again more spread out is a form of social isolation so that population is somewhat less at risk than a population living in densely concentrated areas. That's epidemiology 101.

If you look at the total numbers tested, the U.S. ranked 7th (based on CDC tested numbers) as of 3/12. But that comparison is somewhat useless and anyone making that comparison would rightly be criticized, as you have done. However, if you look at tests per million people, the U.S. is WAY down the list. There is little doubt that the U.S. is way behind the curve on testing, with numbers below 70 per million as of 3/12. That puts us behind almost every other developed country and a few developing countries. Testing is critical. We have no true idea how far and wide this virus has spread, which means we also have no real strong numbers on mortality. The numbers cited (anywhere from 1 to 3%) are best guess at this point. And getting to an accurate morality rate is further complicated by the fact that different countries have different healthcare systems (which will skew results) and the virus has different mortality rates for different age groups. We also have no true idea where the hot spots are and where we should be taking stronger steps to promote/enforce social isolation and other methods for slowing the spread.

I have no idea how the length of a border has anything to do with testing rates, so I'll leave that one alone.

In closing, it's my opinion that anyone who thinks this virus can be eradicated or stopped is living in a fantasy. Based on what we are seeing, and with cases showing up even in Richmond, Vermont - about 5 miles down the road from me, I think the genie is out of the bottle. The best we can do is slow its spread so that healthcare facilities are not overwhelmed. Eventually, pretty much everyone will likely be exposed and we will developed immunities. Eventually, there will be a vaccine to protect future generations. But if the 1% mortality rate holds up, I think we will see mortality measured in the hundreds of thousands in the U.S., and millions across the world.

It is also my opinion that the Trump administration badly bungled this one. We spent precious weeks listening to "it's not that bad" and "it will go away this spring" and "this is fake news" and "this is a Democratic hoax" and lost precious time getting a response going. That response is now beginning, but it is significantly delayed which means the virus has had more opportunity to gain traction and spread. How much more this could have been contained if the response was more rapid and the situation had been taken more seriously sooner is anyone's guess.

[Mountain Man]

According to the last census, 84% of the U.S. population lives in urban areas, not 50%. With a population of 327M (approx), that's over 274M people living in concentrated areas.

Yes, but how many urban areas are we talking about? And how spread out are they? That's the point. We don't have a concentrated population.

It is also my opinion that the Trump administration badly bungled this one. We spent precious weeks listening to "it's not that bad" and "it will go away this spring" and "this is fake news" and "this is a Democratic hoax" and lost precious time getting a response going.

The President never said it was a hoax. What he said is that the media and Democrats were too focused on their latest hoax (impeachment) to give any thought to the Wuhan virus, which Trump started drawing attention to at least as early as January of this year, and medical experts are saying that his quick action in instituting travel bans, which liberals condemned as racist, significantly checked the early spread of the disease in the US. Contrast that with someone like Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders who are still calling for open borders, and the Democrats who are busy trying to pass legislation to limit the President's authority to close our borders.

Trump was on top of this early, and while the US response hasn't been perfect, I'm not sure anybody else could have done a better job. In contrast, look at how badly Obama and Biden handled the swine flu outbreak.

[carpedm9587]

Yes, but how many urban areas are we talking about? And how spread out are they? That's the point. We don't have a concentrated population.

MM, those urban areas are in 50 states with state governments, and a federal government overseeing all. The concentration of people in dense urban areas makes creating testing that much easier. Heck, even if serious testing had been started in just the five largest urban areas within a few days of the emergence of the virus in the U.S., our testing numbers would be WAY up. There is no doubt in my mind that the testing process was unacceptably slowed by a poor strategies and poor planning.

The President never said it was a hoax. What he said is that the media and Democrats were too focused on their latest hoax (impeachment) to give any thought to the Wuhan virus, which Trump started drawing attention to at least as early as January of this year, and medical experts are saying that his quick action in instituting travel bans, which liberals condemned as racist, significantly checked the early spread of the disease in the US. Contrast that with someone like Joe Biden and Bernie Sanders who are still calling for open borders, and the Democrats who are busy trying to pass legislation to limit the President's authority to close our borders.

At several rallies, Trump specifically called the situation (not the virus itself) at "Democratic hoax," insisting that Democrats were trying to inflame the situation to score political points. I agree that the "this" in my sentence was ambiguous and I could have written that better. The point is, for several weeks Trump insisted there was little/nothing to worry about and downplayed the seriousness of the situation. That is pretty much beyond refutation.

ETA: I would seriously like to see a single place where either Biden or Sanders called for "open borders." AFAIK, that has never been part of their messaging.

Trump was on top of this early, and while the US response hasn't been perfect, I'm not sure anybody else could have done a better job. In contrast, look at how badly Obama and Biden handled the swine flu outbreak.

So setting aside that we just went into "whataboutism," which is an effective tactic for redirecting the discussion away from the actual topic area, the Obama response to the swine flu was a combination of good and bad. This article does a pretty good job of breaking down the pluses and the deltas. As usual, Trump is the king of picking out select facts and ignoring the information that doesn't convey the story he wants to convey.

As for the Trump response, the data does not support your claim that "Trump was on top of this early." The first known case of coronavirus in the U.S. occurred in Washington State on January 19th - about two months ago. Three days later Trump was in his usual media spin mode claiming "they had it totally under control". After that came a nonstop set of claims to continuing control, which could not possibly be known because very little testing had been done. As late as March 12 the messaging was still "it will go away." Amazingly, Trump publicly stated that he didn't want the cruise ship off the California coast to dock because "it would make the numbers look bad." His power of empathy for impacted citizens is pretty much at zero.

A test was available two days before the first reported U.S. case, but the U.S. blocked all tests developed externally and opted to develop a test stateside, delaying test availability significantly. FDA approval was granted two weeks after the first reported case. By February 7th, fewer than 100 test kits had been shipped to state public health labs. That test was shown problematic on February 12th, resulting in inconclusive results for half the shipped tests. By the end of February, now almost a month and a half after the initial U.S. case and three and a half months after the first reported case in China, only 3 of the 100 U.S. public health labs had verified the CDC test for use. TO make matters worse, CDC guidelines were for testing to be done only on patients with reported travel to/from China or exposure to a known carrier. That caused community spread to be ignored for another several days. Those guidelines were only amended on February 27. Trump, meanwhile, was still claiming everything was "under control." The FDA did not allow academic hospital labs to conduct their own tests until February 29. As of March 6, only 700,000 testing kits had been shipped in a country with 327M people. That's one testing kit per 467 people in the country. As of Sunday, March 8th, 5 out of every million people had been tested. By March 12th, that had climbed to 70. That was 3 days ago.

I think the timeline is self-explanatory: the response has not been a good one. It is getting better - but the delays gave the virus a significant opportunity to move out into the population. Any hopes of containment, if that was ever actually possible, are gone. And as testing unfolds, I predict we will find that the spread of the virus is much broader than anyone realized. This interactive map is a pretty useful tool for tracking the outbreak. The data seems to be 1-3 days delayed, AFAICT. I base that on the time it took the map to update after various reported state numbers changed.

[Mountain Man]

Dr. Oz can be a bit of a nut sometimes, but I think he's right on the money here:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...ymptoms-video/

I wonder how many deaths in the past few months that were attributed to the common flu were really from the Wuhan virus?

[Mountain Man]

MM, those urban areas are in 50 states with state governments, and a federal government overseeing all. The concentration of people in dense urban areas makes creating testing that much easier. Heck, even if serious testing had been started in just the five largest urban areas within a few days of the emergence of the virus in the U.S., our testing numbers would be WAY up. There is no doubt in my mind that the testing process was unacceptably slowed by a poor strategies and poor planning.



At several rallies, Trump specifically called the situation (not the virus itself) at "Democratic hoax," insisting that Democrats were trying to inflame the situation to score political points. I agree that the "this" in my sentence was ambiguous and I could have written that better. The point is, for several weeks Trump insisted there was little/nothing to worry about and downplayed the seriousness of the situation. That is pretty much beyond refutation.

ETA: I would seriously like to see a single place where either Biden or Sanders called for "open borders." AFAIK, that has never been part of their messaging.



So setting aside that we just went into "whataboutism," which is an effective tactic for redirecting the discussion away from the actual topic area, the Obama response to the swine flu was a combination of good and bad. This article does a pretty good job of breaking down the pluses and the deltas. As usual, Trump is the king of picking out select facts and ignoring the information that doesn't convey the story he wants to convey.

As for the Trump response, the data does not support your claim that "Trump was on top of this early." The first known case of coronavirus in the U.S. occurred in Washington State on January 19th - about two months ago. Three days later Trump was in his usual media spin mode claiming "they had it totally under control". After that came a nonstop set of claims to continuing control, which could not possibly be known because very little testing had been done. As late as March 12 the messaging was still "it will go away." Amazingly, Trump publicly stated that he didn't want the cruise ship off the California coast to dock because "it would make the numbers look bad." His power of empathy for impacted citizens is pretty much at zero.

A test was available two days before the first reported U.S. case, but the U.S. blocked all tests developed externally and opted to develop a test stateside, delaying test availability significantly. FDA approval was granted two weeks after the first reported case. By February 7th, fewer than 100 test kits had been shipped to state public health labs. That test was shown problematic on February 12th, resulting in inconclusive results for half the shipped tests. By the end of February, now almost a month and a half after the initial U.S. case and three and a half months after the first reported case in China, only 3 of the 100 U.S. public health labs had verified the CDC test for use. TO make matters worse, CDC guidelines were for testing to be done only on patients with reported travel to/from China or exposure to a known carrier. That caused community spread to be ignored for another several days. Those guidelines were only amended on February 27. Trump, meanwhile, was still claiming everything was "under control." The FDA did not allow academic hospital labs to conduct their own tests until February 29. As of March 6, only 700,000 testing kits had been shipped in a country with 327M people. That's one testing kit per 467 people in the country. As of Sunday, March 8th, 5 out of every million people had been tested. By March 12th, that had climbed to 70. That was 3 days ago.

I think the timeline is self-explanatory: the response has not been a good one. It is getting better - but the delays gave the virus a significant opportunity to move out into the population. Any hopes of containment, if that was ever actually possible, are gone. And as testing unfolds, I predict we will find that the spread of the virus is much broader than anyone realized. This interactive map is a pretty useful tool for tracking the outbreak. The data seems to be 1-3 days delayed, AFAICT. I base that on the time it took the map to update after various reported state numbers changed.

Do you know why the US rejected foreign made tests? Because of the high rate of false negatives. Anywhere from 30% to 50% of test kits failed to correctly identify the Chinese coronavirus. And in September 2019, President Trump signed an executive order to improve our response to influenza, so something like this has been on his radar for months.

Those are just two points which you are woefully uninformed about. I won't bother dissecting the rest of your post which is similarly biased and uninformed.

[rogue06]

Dr. Oz can be a bit of a nut sometimes, but I think he's right on the money here:

https://www.thegatewaypundit.com/202...ymptoms-video/

I wonder how many deaths in the past few months that were attributed to the common flu were really from the Wuhan virus?

Trump got tested because he was exposed to someone who had it and the MSM was accusing him of endangering people because of it. You even have this in the New York Times: Trump Is Tested For Coronavirus and Experts Ask What Took So Long: Federal officials are asking Americans for extraordinary vigilance against a new pathogen. President Trump has taken a different course, worrying scientists And from CNN: Why it matters A LOT that Trump hasn't been tested for coronavirus

[mossrose]

Trudeau has been "advised" not to get tested because he has no symptoms.

Even though his wife has it and is in quarantine and he is in self isolation.

I am torn between whether he should be tested or not.

[carpedm9587]

Do you know why the US rejected foreign made tests? Because of the high rate of false negatives. Anywhere from 30% to 50% of test kits failed to correctly identify the Chinese coronavirus.

This article quotes one person, and I can find absolutely zero confirming evidence for this claim anywhere else online. Given that Brietbart is the source, and they have a history of selectively reporting facts to foster an agenda (in this case, all they are doing is saying, "person X said Y," which is apparently true, but there is no documentation that supports what Saphier, aka Person X, said). Add to that the fact that Saphier is a confirmed conservative that is a regular on Fox news, so likely to have an agenda, I have to admit I am dubious. Supporting evidence beyond "Person X said Y" would be helpful, if you have any. Confirmation from multiple sources, at the very least, would help. That's pretty basic research methodology.

ETA: The test kits rejected by the U.S. where developed by the WHO, and those test kits are still being used worldwide. I cannot find any reference to a high rate of false negatives. The only reference I find to high false negatives (outside of your one article link) are numerous reports of the indeterminate results of the initial CDC test kits due to a faulty reagent.

And in September 2019, President Trump signed an executive order to improve our response to influenza, so something like this has been on his radar for months.

Covid-19 is not influenza. You can get some basic information about the differences here. Ergo, an executive order about the flu has nothing to do with coronavirus, as far as I can tell.

Those are just two points which you are woefully uninformed about. I won't bother dissecting the rest of your post which is similarly biased and uninformed.

The rest of the post is actually based on facts unearthed through research, except for the things clearly marked as my opinion. I don't think they will be subject to refutation unless you can show the underlying facts to be wrong. Given the multiple sources I turned to (though I selected only one to link to for each fact offered), I don't see that happening.

[carpedm9587]

Trump got tested because he was exposed to someone who had it and the MSM was accusing him of endangering people because of it. You even have this in the New York Times: Trump Is Tested For Coronavirus and Experts Ask What Took So Long: Federal officials are asking Americans for extraordinary vigilance against a new pathogen. President Trump has taken a different course, worrying scientists And from CNN: Why it matters A LOT that Trump hasn't been tested for coronavirus

If you have reason to believe you've been exposed, you should be seeking a test and/or self-quarantining. Trump holds the highest office in the land and commands the "bully pulpit." Setting anything other than an ideal example at a time of crisis is a failure to execute his office, IMO. Furthermore, the health of the person holding the office of commander in chief is of concern (or should be) to every American.

Personally, I wanted to know that he has NOT been infected, and I am happy to know that is the case. I wish Sanders and Biden would do the same thing.

[Mountain Man]

And now for something completely different...

corona_xcom.jpg



(If you're not familiar with XCOM, just take my word for it that this is hilarious.)

[Mountain Man]

The rest of the post is actually based on facts unearthed through research...

"Research."

google.jpeg



I'm actually a bit surprised you didn't pull up that infamous New York Times article that tried to coin to term "Trumpvirus" and declared, "If you're feeling sick, you know who to blame."

[carpedm9587]

"Research."

[ATTACH=CONFIG]43300[/ATTACH]

I'm a bit perplexed by this post. As a verb, "research" means "investigate systematically." Google is a powerful research tool for unearthing information in 2020. It's used by researchers worldwide. Do you have a suggestion for a different/better way to find information online? Do you use something different to investigate an issue?

I'm actually a bit surprised you didn't pull up that infamous New York Times article that tried to coin to term "Trumpvirus" and declared, "If you're feeling sick, you know who to blame."

I am not familiar with it, and I suspect I wouldn't consider it a very useful article (based on this description). I suspect it's an opinion piece. I see no purpose in calling Covid-19 the "Trumpvirus." And it would be very hard (and somewhat pointless, IMO) to appropriately assign blame for a single person who has gotten ill. It is entirely possible there is no one to blame for a specific instance of an illness.