Originally posted by carpedm9587
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"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostYou do realize that the president doesn't actually have the Constitutional authority to do that, right? It would be such a gross overreach of federal authority that it boggles the mind you would even suggest it.
So, yes, you are blatantly contradicting yourself when you cry about Trump acting like a dictator and then cry when he doesn't act like one.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostThat was literally the whole purpose of a dictator. It was the temporary appointment of absolute power during times of crisis to act accordingly without restrictions or delays."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostI absolutely agree. My observation was, at a minimum, if a state is not taking precautions to staunch the spread of the virus, Trump could basically quarantine that entire state - no travel to/from until they show zero infections or put in place constraints.
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostIt's how our country operates. The federal government has limited power, and the individual states have autonomy. It's basically the model the Europeam Union is based on but without success, partly because they didn't build in those necessary limits.
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So this is a tangent to this thread, and I'm not going to engage in a back and forth about it, but OBP's post and my response has been rumbling around in my head as I clean the garage and prepare for tomorrow's trip. On December 9th, 2018, my two sons got into a fight that escalated more than it should have and ended up with one of them at the emergency room to get a badly bruised and possibly broken arm looked at. My wife and I were traveling at the time and I reacted to the call and the news by first addressing the immediate need, and then going down to the bar and getting drunk. I was so drunk that I apparently came back to the room and passed out on the bathroom floor. The entire event from going down to the bar until I awoke the next morning in my bed is not in my memories - so I had a blackout. My wife told me all that happened rather matter-of-factly and without accusation. On December 10th, I made the decision that I was abusing alcohol and it had to stop. I did not, and frankly do not, know if I was/am an alcoholic, but I had no desire to do the "AA" thing. So I told my wife I would stop drinking completely - no exceptions - and if I failed to keep that promise to myself, I would start a formal recovery process. I've been sober since and it frankly has not been a major effort.
It dawns on me that I have a similar problem with respect to trolling. Responding to trolls is a form of addiction. Not being able to resist correcting a misrepresentation or outright lie (and some do it so frequently I no longer think it is unintentional) is a form of pride and is also a form of addiction. I am clearly capable of trolling, given that is what I was doing to MM for several pages in this very thread. And I do not enjoy that part of me anymore than I enjoy the part of me that is capable of getting blindingly drunk.
So I'm going to make the same commitment now that I made to my wife. I'm going to stop responding to trolls, lies, and misrepresentation, and keep the conversation about the issues. While it is tempting to simply identify individuals that it is no longer worth responding to, people are not bottles of booze. The alcohol never changes - but people can and I'd like to think everyone is capable of changing their behavior. So I'm not going to avoid anyone who trolls - I simply am not going to respond to any post that has elected to take the insulting, condescending, name-calling, trolling, personal-attack path and will limit myself to those interested in serious discussions about the issues.
And as with the alcohol - if I cannot keep that promise, I'm going to admit that I cannot handle this place without devolving being a troll myself and bid ya'll goodbye.
Let's see if that sticks as well as the commitment to stop drinking.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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Originally posted by carpedm9587 View PostSo this is a tangent to this thread, and I'm not going to engage in a back and forth about it, but OBP's post and my response has been rumbling around in my head as I clean the garage and prepare for tomorrow's trip. On December 9th, 2018, my two sons got into a fight that escalated more than it should have and ended up with one of them at the emergency room to get a badly bruised and possibly broken arm looked at. My wife and I were traveling at the time and I reacted to the call and the news by first addressing the immediate need, and then going down to the bar and getting drunk. I was so drunk that I apparently came back to the room and passed out on the bathroom floor. The entire event from going down to the bar until I awoke the next morning in my bed is not in my memories - so I had a blackout. My wife told me all that happened rather matter-of-factly and without accusation. On December 10th, I made the decision that I was abusing alcohol and it had to stop. I did not, and frankly do not, know if I was/am an alcoholic, but I had no desire to do the "AA" thing. So I told my wife I would stop drinking completely - no exceptions - and if I failed to keep that promise to myself, I would start a formal recovery process. I've been sober since and it frankly has not been a major effort.
It dawns on me that I have a similar problem with respect to trolling. Responding to trolls is a form of addiction. Not being able to resist correcting a misrepresentation or outright lie (and some do it so frequently I no longer think it is unintentional) is a form of pride and is also a form of addiction. I am clearly capable of trolling, given that is what I was doing to MM for several pages in this very thread. And I do not enjoy that part of me anymore than I enjoy the part of me that is capable of getting blindingly drunk.
So I'm going to make the same commitment now that I made to my wife. I'm going to stop responding to trolls, lies, and misrepresentation, and keep the conversation about the issues. While it is tempting to simply identify individuals that it is no longer worth responding to, people are not bottles of booze. The alcohol never changes - but people can and I'd like to think everyone is capable of changing their behavior. So I'm not going to avoid anyone who trolls - I simply am not going to respond to any post that has elected to take the insulting, condescending, name-calling, trolling, personal-attack path and will limit myself to those interested in serious discussions about the issues.
And as with the alcohol - if I cannot keep that promise, I'm going to admit that I cannot handle this place without devolving being a troll myself and bid ya'll goodbye.
Let's see if that sticks as well as the commitment to stop drinking.
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Originally posted by little_monkey View PostI don't think he needs to do that. Just a phone call to the recalcitrant governors, what... about 8 of them, and tell them to get on board. As president, he's got leverage just by being the president. Second, coordination and communication are more effective than do-it-alone - an argument he surely has used on other occasions. Third, he can direct the flow of goods, and those states could get passed out if not in tune with the rest of the country. I'm sure he can muster other reasons to get his point across. Like I said before, it's a question of leadership, and you show it on difficult situations and trying times.
And all appeals to the constitution are just fodder for his base. He has no respect for the constitution, as he has amply demonstrated on multiple occasions. What president has ever claimed that Article II grants them unlimited power? And impeachment is a constitutionally defined power - it's not a "coup." And Congress is granted the power and responsibility of oversight - yet he simply declares himself above it all repeatedly. No president has attacked the constitution via his words and actions more than Mr. Trump. He's a con man, and the fact that most of the Republican party has been successfully conned is a sad commentary on how far that party has fallen. I hope they relocate their souls someday.Last edited by carpedm9587; 04-05-2020, 03:36 PM.The ultimate weakness of violence is that it is a descending spiral begetting the very thing it seeks to destroy...returning violence for violence multiplies violence, adding deeper darkness to a night already devoid of stars. Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that. Martin Luther King
I would unite with anybody to do right and with nobody to do wrong. Frederick Douglas
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First of all, Trump does not act like a dictator. Not even close. It's a specious accusation.
Second, you seem to not understand exactly what the National Emergent Act is. It must be approved by Congress, it is limited, and it can not be used to suspend Constitutionally protected rights. For instance, Lincoln's decision to suspend habeas corpus during the Civil War was struck down by the Supreme Court (but he did it anyway), and
"Harry Truman declared the use of emergency powers in Executive Order 10340 when he seized private steel mills that failed to produce steel because of a labor strike in 1952. With the Korean War ongoing, Truman asserted that he could not wage war successfully if the economy failed to provide him with the material resources necessary to keep the troops well-equipped. The U.S. Supreme Court, however, rejected the argument in Youngstown Sheet & Tube Co. v. Sawyer, voting 6-3 that neither Commander in Chief powers nor any claimed emergency powers gave the President the authority to unilaterally seize private property without Congressional authority."
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/emergency_powers
So even with a declaration of emergency powers, the president would not be within his Constitutional limits to suspend travel between states. Yet maniacs like carpe want him to do exactly that.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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