Originally posted by Sparko
View Post
Announcement
Collapse
Civics 101 Guidelines
Want to argue about politics? Healthcare reform? Taxes? Governments? You've come to the right place!
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
Try to keep it civil though. The rules still apply here.
See more
See less
Warren vs Sanders
Collapse
X
-
Disclaimer: I really don't know what I'm talking about and am mostly going with my gut. I'm a computer scientist not a political scientist. Don't bite me :).
Originally posted by Starlight View PostUm... if you'd asked be last week I would have said a Sanders/Warren ticket was the best possible ticket, both to maximize the chances of Dem victory and for the future of the country. Though Warren's antics this week have reminded me she's not very good at politics.
And I don't want to get into who started the fight first. It's mutually assured destruction so neither is going to get the nomination unless they both bury the hatchet right quick.
Let me ask this. When Obama chose Biden as his VP it was clear what Biden was bringing to the table. In a Warren / Sanders pairing what votes will that VP selection actually bring that a person of color (Harris / Abrams), or a young voice (Buttigieg / Beto) wouldn't capture more of (sucky sentence but I think you get it).
I have literally no clue what you're talking about.
He ran against Clinton... that's called a primary, not backstabbing. Then he supported Clinton after he lost and campaigned vigorously for her, that's called being a good loser and unselfishly putting the party first, not backstabbing.
So are Sanders and Trump, but only Trump and Biden appear to be losing their marbles.
I wish she had gone all in on Medicare for all. She seems to have some sort of overcomplicated position of liking medicare for all but liking obamacare too. Polling shows medicare for all is a massively popular policy and I think she would have done better to have stuck with it rather than backing out of it.
I was hoping for something more like this after having a bleeding heart attack.
At 72, McCain would have been the oldest president if elected, and there were issues related to his past treatment for melanoma and his experience as a prisoner of war. McCain dealt with the concerns with his characteristic candor. The Arizona senator made 1,173 pages of his medical records available to the media, setting a standard for accessibility and transparency.
Well here's a poll from Florida this week:
Fox News will rabidly spout it's propaganda and lie to its audience about Dems regardless of what Dems do. I think it's lunacy to try to pander to them. Avoiding standing up for Dem values just because Fox News would love to make hay of it, is self-defeating.
Sanders wins by miles in the rust belt because the voters there are really anti-NAFTA compared to the rest of the country and blame it for causing the massive job losses they've seen in recent decades. They went to Trump over Hillary because he was anti-trade-agreements and she was pro-trade-agreements. Bernie has a long history of being anti-NAFTA and other big trade agreements and does well with voters in those areas as a result.
It's not zero sum. The primaries come before the general, so both happen.
If, in the primaries, candidates who excite the voters more get elected, they are more likely to bring more energy to the general and be able to fundraise more from people. AOC's busy breaking fundraising records because people love her enthusiasm and strong standing up for Dem views. It's allowed her to both fundraise and donate a lot more than a normal congressperson would to support other Dem candidates. Far better to have new blood that excites the voting base and gets people activated, donating, and voting, and thus win elections, than to stick with the tried-and-failed career politicians who lost to Trump and who haven't had a new idea that excites potential Dem voters in 20 years, and thus have a repeat of 2016.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostEvery indication is that Bernie supporters won't stand for him getting cheated out of the nomination a second time.
Comment
-
Originally posted by DivineOb View PostThere's an adage about why Republicans win despite there being fewer of them and their policies sucking: "Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line." There is a gracious way to admit defeat once the battle is clearly lost and a gracious way to behave at the Convention. In both cases Bernie and his supporters did the opposite.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHuh? If anything it seemed like Bernie Sanders was bending over backwards to support Hillary even after it was public that the DNC screwed him over. What exactly are your examples of Bernie "doing the opposite" of being gracious at the Convention?
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostI believe Bernie said it, I'm surprised, and he should have just fessed up, but not a big deal, that was his opinion concerning the electorate at the time. But so what, I think it's a mole hill.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostI believe Bernie said it, I'm surprised, and he should have just fessed up, but not a big deal, that was his opinion concerning the electorate at the time. But so what, I think it's a mole hill.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seanD View PostA molehill of potential disenfranchised no-voters or even switch voters out of spite.
Comment
-
Originally posted by JimL View PostI doubt that very much, sean. They are nearly mirror images of each other ideologically, both loved by the progressives, and they are friends to boot. Progressives would be happy with either one of them as the nominee. And so would they.
And you're also assuming either of those candidates will be nominated. There's an impeachment thing going on, remember? This will probably hinder both Sanders and Warren's campaign efforts during the Iowa caucus. I believe it'll be bad enough for the DNC if either of those two are chosen over the other, but if someone like Biden or Pete is chosen instead... whoa nelly.
Comment
-
Originally posted by Terraceth View PostHuh? If anything it seemed like Bernie Sanders was bending over backwards to support Hillary even after it was public that the DNC screwed him over. What exactly are your examples of Bernie "doing the opposite" of being gracious at the Convention?
This article covers what a disaster his supporters turned the convention into. He bears responsibility for their behavior for various reasons.
He insisted on not conceding after Super Tuesday when it became (effectively) impossible for him to win. This probably contributed to his supporters out of control behavior at the convention.
He spent most of August working on his book instead of campaigning for Clinton.
He turned on Clinton in the final week of the election. (opinion piece)
Last, he either knew or should have known that he was getting online support from Russia and did nothing about it.Last edited by DivineOb; 01-16-2020, 08:21 PM.
Comment
-
Originally posted by seanD View PostOr the fact that CNN clearly showed its bias against Sanders for all the world to see during the debates, which could spark suspicion among his supporters that the DNC establishment is once again conspiring against his nomination.Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
Comment
-
Originally posted by DivineOb View PostYes, the DNC screwed over Sanders. I agree 100% on that. If that hadn't happened I assume she likely would have won the election since even a tiny fraction of his followers, who either didn't vote or voted for Trump or that other Russian candidate (Green Party), would have been enough to win things in the key states.
This article covers what a disaster his supporters turned the convention into.Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
Comment
-
Originally posted by DivineOb View PostYes, the DNC screwed over Sanders. I agree 100% on that. If that hadn't happened I assume she likely would have won the election since even a tiny fraction of his followers, who either didn't vote or voted for Trump or that other Russian candidate (Green Party), would have been enough to win things in the key states.
This article covers what a disaster his supporters turned the convention into. He bears responsibility for their behavior for various reasons.
He insisted on not conceding after Super Tuesday when it became (effectively) impossible for him to win. This probably contributed to his supporters out of control behavior at the convention.
He spent most of August working on his book instead of campaigning for Clinton.
He turned on Clinton in the final week of the election. (opinion piece)
Last, he either knew or should have known that he was getting online support from Russia and did nothing about it.Last edited by JimL; 01-16-2020, 10:10 PM.
Comment
Related Threads
Collapse
Topics | Statistics | Last Post | ||
---|---|---|---|---|
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 01:19 PM
|
9 responses
52 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 11:58 PM
|
||
Started by Hypatia_Alexandria, Yesterday, 12:23 PM
|
6 responses
37 views
0 likes
|
Last Post Today, 03:23 AM | ||
Started by Cow Poke, Yesterday, 11:46 AM
|
16 responses
101 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by Stoic
Yesterday, 04:44 PM
|
||
Started by seer, Yesterday, 04:37 AM
|
23 responses
107 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 02:49 PM
|
||
Started by seanD, 05-02-2024, 04:10 AM
|
27 responses
156 views
0 likes
|
Last Post
by seanD
Yesterday, 01:37 PM
|
Comment