Christianity Today Op Ed

[lilpixieofterror]

Unfortunately, I'm not assuming anything.

I can honestly claim that I have, more than anyone on this forum, introduced the facts, figures, and data regarding the problem of voter suppression. I've brought in the studies, explained 'em (often numerous times) and debunked the myths and conspiracies that always crop up about the voter fraud that purportedly necessitates the suppression. You, me, MM, and several others have gone around on this many times over. I'm speaking from personal experience: I have never once known you to affirmatively advance non-partisan voting reforms to combat voter suppression.

One memory that left its mark: a number of us were discussing Strict Voter ID and you and others were advancing the false claim that anyone who wanted to vote could get the ID for free with little hassle. I and others disputed this, bringing in studies and news reports about people who could not do so, often because they lacked the necessary ID and the documents needed to get one. One user here -- unfortunately, I cannot remember his screen name (tabito, maybe?) -- gave his personal account of just such a problem: that he lacked the necessary documents, lacked the money and the time to obtain those documents, and would therefore be unable to vote because of Strict Voter ID. His account was disregarded and the talking point never changed.

I would like it very much if people on this forum all agreed that voter suppression from any party is wrong and intrinsically anti-democratic and all sincerely agreed to support non-partisan reforms like automatic registration and independent redistricting commissions.

I'm a less idealistic person than in my youth, admittedly, but I'm always willing to give hope a chance.

Yet another back handed comment, thus why you get the reactions you get.

[One Bad Pig]

Now that I'm thinking about it, tabito had an avatar of a little boat and that's not the right person. Can't remember the name. Nice guy who was having a lot of medical problems.

You're probably thinking of Technomage/Outis. IIRC he was also dealing with bouts of homelessness or something, which would complicate matters.

[Sam]

You're probably thinking of Technomage/Outis. IIRC he was also dealing with bouts of homelessness or something, which would complicate matters.

Technomage, yes. Thank you, OBP.

At the time of his accounting, at least, I believe he was not homeless, as he talked about having to travel a good distance from his home. But his primarily point was that he was on a limited fixed budget -- a fairly common problem -- and the cost of obtaining the necessary documents was in the hundreds of dollars, money he needed to afford medication.

--Sam

[lilpixieofterror]

Tabibito lives in Australia.

Lacking funds to get an ID is ridiculous. They cost like $5. They can't even get food stamps without one. Basically anyone without an ID would need to either depend on someone with an ID to completely support them their entire lives or be homeless. If someone can't get an ID because they lack the proper paperwork (birth certificate) then the fault is their parents. There are ways around such problems.
The idea that there are great swaths of poor blacks and hispanic citizens out there without IDs is a liberal racist myth.

[Sparko]

No matter what there will always be a few who fall between the cracks, who can't get an ID. But they are rare, not the norm. Making laws to accommodate the few at the risk of compromising our elections is foolish. As far as Technomage goes, he had periods where he was NOT homeless, had a house and a family and yet he couldn't get an ID then? How did he have a house? A bank account? Did he lose his ID and couldn't get another because he didn't have his birth certificate?

Most states already have voter ID requirements. Have for just about forever. I know my state does. Nobody complains about not being able to vote. In order to register to vote, you have to have an ID, and proof of residence. An actual address. So you can be placed in the correct district. Then you have to bring your ID to the polling place where they check it before giving you a ballot.

[Sam]

No matter what there will always be a few who fall between the cracks, who can't get an ID. But they are rare, not the norm. Making laws to accommodate the few at the risk of compromising our elections is foolish. As far as Technomage goes, he had periods where he was NOT homeless, had a house and a family and yet he couldn't get an ID then? How did he have a house? A bank account? Did he lose his ID and couldn't get another because he didn't have his birth certificate?

Most states already have voter ID requirements. Have for just about forever. I know my state does. Nobody complains about not being able to vote. In order to register to vote, you have to have an ID, and proof of residence. An actual address. So you can be placed in the correct district. Then you have to bring your ID to the polling place where they check it before giving you a ballot.

Well, I'm not going to go through it all again -- as y'all have helpfully demonstrated, the exact same talking points will exist ad infinitum no matter what.

But I will point out that there's a difference between "having an ID to vote" and Strict Voter ID laws -- a difference that's been laboriously explained to you before. In the recent North Carolina case, the court found that the NCGOP legislature crafted its Strict Voter ID laws by drafting a list of acceptable IDs and then commissioning a study to find out the percentages classes of people had those IDs ... and then removed from the list the forms of IDs most possessed by black voters. NCGOP also moved to eliminate Sunday early voting and argued, in court no less, that it's justification for doing so was "[c]ounties with Sunday voting in 2014 were disproportionately black". This was called "as close to a smoking gun as we are likely to see in modern times" by the court.

There was not, among the cadre of folks I'm talking about here, any strong negative reaction against NCGOP for such blatant voter suppression efforts and the evidence that Strict Voter ID and other suppression techniques are actively designed for partisan advantage continues to be discarded in favor of prima facie talking points that never change.

--Sam

[oxmixmudd]

Without realizing it, you've just walked right into the racist talking point of "it's all their fault"

Unfortunately, racism in america has a legacy. And part of that legacy is disproportionate poverty and crime. And those elements do make it harder for black people to get to the polls. And yes, it does take outside help to reduce that impact on voter turnout.

[lilpixieofterror]

Without realizing it, you've just walked right into the racist talking point of "it's all their fault"

Unfortunately, racism in america has a legacy. And part of that legacy is disproportionate poverty and crime. And those elements do make it harder for black people to get to the polls. And yes, it does take outside help to reduce that impact on voter turnout.

join the military or even work at Wal-Mart

[rogue06]

join the military or even work at Wal-Mart

And let's keep in mind that folks like Civil Rights icon Andrew Young as well as Bill Clinton are both vocal supporters of requiring picture IDs to vote.

%#@%$ racists smiley fist shake.gif

[rogue06]

Tabibito lives in Australia.

Lacking funds to get an ID is ridiculous. They cost like $5. They can't even get food stamps without one. Basically anyone without an ID would need to either depend on someone with an ID to completely support them their entire lives or be homeless. If someone can't get an ID because they lack the proper paperwork (birth certificate) then the fault is their parents. There are ways around such problems.
The idea that there are great swaths of poor blacks and hispanic citizens out there without IDs is a liberal racist myth.

As I've noted here multiple times Georgia's law has withstood every legal challenge.

Here if you cannot afford an ID, it will be provided free of cost.

If you claim it is too difficult for you to go out and get one they will send someone out to where you live an issue one. Again free if you say you cannot afford one.

No excuses.

[rogue06]

Sam typifies what is meant by the soft bigotry of low expectations.

[One Bad Pig]

As I've noted here multiple times Georgia's law has withstood every legal challenge.

Here if you cannot afford an ID, it will be provided free of cost.

If you claim it is too difficult for you to go out and get one they will send someone out to where you live an issue one. Again free if you say you cannot afford one.

No excuses.

IIRC Technomage's issue was he was missing some paperwork needed to get the ID (i.e., to prove his identity) which itself cost money.

[Mountain Man]

You didn't. He apparently took your sarcasm to be a statement of your actual beliefs. Whether his mistake was feigned or genuine is hard to say, but knowing ox, I suspect the former.

[oxmixmudd]

join the military or even work at Wal-Mart

I'm not actually against requiring an ID, as long as the ID requirement isn't designed to disproportionately affect the poor or African Americans etc.

AS for the 'It's all their fault", Like I said: 'without realizing it ...'

[lilpixieofterror]

I'm not actually against requiring an ID, as long as the ID requirement isn't designed to disproportionately affect the poor or African Americans etc.

AS for the 'It's all their fault", Like I said: 'without realizing it ...'