Christianity Today Op Ed

[Mountain Man]

Why are you so stuck on the funding part? Robert Mueller made the US Treasury 12ish million dollars as part of his investigation. Imagine if we had more of that? That was my whole post. I think you've got some weird ideas because you've been reading Crystals weird misrepresentations of my first post.

If we actually stopped the Panama stuff, like finger snap, that's like 70 billion a year to the treasury. Just from the stuff in Panama, just for the US. You keep saying it's a drop in the bucket, but why does that part matter? It's not a drop in the bucket, first of all. You're trying very hard to act like 10s of billions of dollars is somehow irrelevant when that is money that should be used on infrastructure and the like

Also, dude, them paying their taxes is fair. It's the law. Their taxes are lower than they have been in their entire lives and these people are *still* cheating on their taxes. The will never stop cheating on their taxes until we actually punish them for cheating the system to the tune of billions of billions of dollars. Like, you gonna come in and say that it's irrelevant because 70 billion is only 1.5% of the federal budget? Please don't.

The real thing that's gonna pay for social programs is going to be a wealth tax on fortunes above 30 million. I'm not going to debate this part as it's just so you stop saying something I don't believe, k?

Same answer. Taxing our way to prosperity is a pipe dream.

[Cow Poke]

There is no legitimate reason for anyone to believe the presideht was not strong arming Ukraine in an abuse of power.

In your anti-Trump opinion.

So the only debate revolves around is that act itself impeachable.

This, also, is opinion.

There is little reason to believe it is not.

Not to the anti-Trump crowd, no.

That sort of action is at the heart of the purpose in having a provision for impeachment. And so the claim this is purely a partisan pursuit is simply false.

That's not the basis on which I state that the impeachment is a partisan sham, Jim. It's because it was incredibly PARTISAN, with ZERO Republicans voting for it, and the ONLY bipartisanship being some Democrats voting against it.

Otoh, the abandonment of their constitutional responsibility to understand what the truth is and act impartially on that truth IS wholly partisan, and puts our entire system of checks and balances at risk of being made nothing more than a farce, subsumed by the lust for power that grips the entire Republican party at this moment for sure, and quite possibly the whole of the government.

More opinion.

We are at the point where the will of the people no longer understands why our government is as it is.

"The will of the people" "no longer understands"....

They think they'd rather have a King than a Constitutional republic.

Good to finish with an absolutely absurd opinion.

[Sam]

That's not the basis on which I state that the impeachment is a partisan sham, Jim. It's because it was incredibly PARTISAN, with ZERO Republicans voting for it, and the ONLY bipartisanship being some Democrats voting against it.

Justin Amash.

[simplicio]

If that is true, then that would imply nearly half the nation lives in poverty, or there are a large number of people cheating or otherwise finding sufficient loopholes to avoid paying taces.

We have a progressive income tax, many low earners do pay zero, and with tax credits some have a negative rate.

But that is only part of the story, payroll taxes, payments to social security and Medicare, are regressive, capped at about 125k. 80%of taxpayers pay more in payroll taxes than income tax.

But for those who are self employed, there is the employers contribution of almost 7% (I think) for payroll taxes. The employer kicks in to match the employee's tax.

[oxmixmudd]

We have a progressive income tax, many low earners do pay zero, and with tax credits some have a negative rate.

But that is only part of the story, payroll taxes, payments to social security and Medicare, are regressive, capped at about 125k. 80%of taxpayers pay more in payroll taxes than income tax.

But for those who are self employed, there is the employers contribution of almost 7% (I think) for payroll taxes. The employer kicks in to match the employee's tax.

I'm just doubting that 43+% pay no income tax unless a good bit if that number is rich people jumping through loop holes. If it is true, it would be a strong indication that the middle class is dying very quickly in this country.

[oxmixmudd]

In your anti-Trump opinion.



This, also, is opinion.



Not to the anti-Trump crowd, no.



That's not the basis on which I state that the impeachment is a partisan sham, Jim. It's because it was incredibly PARTISAN, with ZERO Republicans voting for it, and the ONLY bipartisanship being some Democrats voting against it.



More opinion.



"The will of the people" "no longer understands"....



Good to finish with an absolutely absurd opinion.

It is my opinion, but it is also simply a fact. There is no legitimate reason to believe Donald Trump was not strong arming Ukraine. And his attempts to hide the information that would likely clarify the matter is just the nail in the coffin. (IOW, that evidence would be the end of his presidency)

It does seem that each time more of the information Trump is trying to hide comes to light, it just makes the case stronger and stronger.

The arguments against Trump's abuse of power focus on trying to discredit the evidence that exists. The evidence that exists supports from multiple orthogonal vectors that Trump was strong arming Ukraine.

[Cow Poke]

Justin Amash.

One man, and an Independent, not a Democrat.

And I think maybe you have a crush on him or something, cause this isn't the first time you brought him up.

[Sam]

One man, and an Independent, not a Democrat.

And I think maybe you have a crush on him or something, cause this isn't the first time you brought him up.

Amash is a really good indicator of who here even pretends to be rational or honest. The idea that Amash, who spent the last decade as a conservative fiscal hawk and founding member of the Freedom Caucus only to be cast out of the party for his refusal to kowtow to Trump like other Republicans, can be cast aside as an Independent is simply stunning in its audacity.

That people continue to parrot the line in order to pretend that impeachment had no support from Republicans or conservatives is just stupid. You could acknowledge Amash's deflection with relatively little damage to the point -- but that would allow for cracks in the facade and some folks just can't allow for that.

--Sam

[rogue06]

If that is true, then that would imply nearly half the nation lives in poverty, or there are a large number of people cheating or otherwise finding sufficient loopholes to avoid paying taces.

No it doesn't. It implies that we have a very progressive income tax where a large percentage of the populace has been relieved of their tax entire income burden. This was something that Nixon set in motion way back when and it gets bigger every year.

[rogue06]

Justin Amash.

Amash is not a Republican.

That he was at one time means nothing. If it did then both Reagan and Trump are Democratic presidents.

[Cow Poke]

Amash is a really good indicator of who here even pretends to be rational or honest. The idea that Amash, who spent the last decade as a conservative fiscal hawk and founding member of the Freedom Caucus only to be cast out of the party for his refusal to kowtow to Trump like other Republicans, can be cast aside as an Independent is simply stunning in its audacity.

That people continue to parrot the line in order to pretend that impeachment had no support from Republicans or conservatives is just stupid. You could acknowledge Amash's deflection with relatively little damage to the point -- but that would allow for cracks in the facade and some folks just can't allow for that.

--Sam

"Cast out of the party"?

[Sam]

"Cast out of the party"?

Yes. Amash announced his decision to leave the party after months of being publicly attacked and losing the support of the caucus and private donors.



--Sam

[Mountain Man]

I'm just doubting that 43+% pay no income tax unless a good bit if that number is rich people jumping through loop holes. If it is true, it would be a strong indication that the middle class is dying very quickly in this country.

Source: MarketWatch

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/81...why-2018-04-16

© Copyright Original Source

[Sam]

Amash is not a Republican.

That he was at one time means nothing. If it did then both Reagan and Trump are Democratic presidents.

Amash left the party on July 4 of 2019. Quite a bit different than Reagan or Trump.

Again, he's a useful indicator for who here even cares to feign rational and honest engagement anymore.

--Sam

[rogue06]

Amash is a really good indicator of who here even pretends to be rational or honest. The idea that Amash, who spent the last decade as a conservative fiscal hawk and founding member of the Freedom Caucus only to be cast out of the party for his refusal to kowtow to Trump like other Republicans, can be cast aside as an Independent is simply stunning in its audacity.

That people continue to parrot the line in order to pretend that impeachment had no support from Republicans or conservatives is just stupid. You could acknowledge Amash's deflection with relatively little damage to the point -- but that would allow for cracks in the facade and some folks just can't allow for that.

--Sam

Amash has long characterized himself as a libertarian but initially ran as a Republican. And he has pretty much been on the fringe of the party for a long time -- even back when Trump was a Democrat. For instance back in 2011 Politico described him thusly:



And he was anything but "cast out" rather he stormed off on his own accord being a staunch opponent of Trump's and a leader of those Republicans in Congress who opposed Trump even before Trump was elected.