Confederate flags again

[oxmixmudd]

You want to continue comparing "woes are me?"

That original post was not 'comparing woes of me'. It was not meant to be personal. It was just meant to be an example of the sorts of things people might face in an economy decimated by government regulations. I did say 'you' which is what I realized wasn't right becuase YOU may well have faced that, but there was no 'me' in it in terms of something like "I've been through worse than you'. Nothing like that going on there.

[Sparko]

Yeah - I pulled that almost as fast as I wrote it, but not fast enough it appears. BTW - how did you get to that when it appears the part you culled came from my second version of the post ... maybe my changes were in a different order than I remember.

We agree that welfare should not be permanent. The goal is to get people back on their feet and productive. What I was really getting at is in my revised post which is put back into the mix above. Maybe that explains why you didn't respond to that part as well. Again for your convenience:

OK I deleted my post responding to the comment you removed.

Yes we agree that people put out of a career by the government should be helped to get back on their feet. I think that should include free training in another field (not necessarily college but at least a trade school) and welfare while they are being trained. But not as I said as a permanent lifestyle.

[oxmixmudd]

OK I deleted my post responding to the comment you removed.

Yes we agree that people put out of a career by the government should be helped to get back on their feet. I think that should include free training in another field (not necessarily college but at least a trade school) and welfare while they are being trained. But not as I said as a permanent lifestyle.

The we agree.

[Leonhard]

OK I deleted my post responding to the comment you removed.

Yes we agree that people put out of a career by the government should be helped to get back on their feet. I think that should include free training in another field (not necessarily college but at least a trade school) and welfare while they are being trained. But not as I said as a permanent lifestyle.

Agreed, that this wasn't done is just plain old wrong.

[shunyadragon]

Agreed, that this wasn't done is just plain old wrong.

Odd how this thread has wander all over the world, and off topic.

Question: Can the Nazi flag be used to represent a cultural purpose other than what it was intended?

[MaxVel]

Odd how this thread has wander all over the world, and off topic.

Question: Can the Nazi flag be used to represent a cultural purpose other than what it was intended?

Can a cultural symbol be adopted and repurposed by a new generation or a different group of people? I think so.

More common is aspects of a cultural symbol being adopted by a different culture, with some parts being ignored or discarded, or just not known about. I don't think that's wrong, either.

[simplicio]

Can a cultural symbol be adopted and repurposed by a new generation or a different group of people? I think so.

More common is aspects of a cultural symbol being adopted by a different culture, with some parts being ignored or discarded, or just not known about. I don't think that's wrong, either.

The Nazi flag has been repurposed for the 21st century. We witnessed it in 2017, most famously at Charlottesville.

Which leaves the question: Just who can really accept that the standard bearers have seriously dropped the repugnant ideas while championing the positive?

[MaxVel]

The Nazi flag has been repurposed for the 21st century. We witnessed it in 2017, most famously at Charlottesville.

Which leaves the question: Just who can really accept that the standard bearers have seriously dropped the repugnant ideas while championing the positive?

I think in the West its associations are still too negative and too fresh for it to be repurposed in a wholly positive way.

It could be used ironically, perhaps, by people who get labelled Nazis by Antifa /leftists and figure they might as well fly the flag if they're gonna get smeared anyway... ... sort of a meme culture thing

[simplicio]

I think in the West its associations are still too negative and too fresh for it to be repurposed in a wholly positive way.

It could be used ironically, perhaps, by people who get labelled Nazis by Antifa /leftists and figure they might as well fly the flag if they're gonna get smeared anyway... ... sort of a meme culture thing

Yes, choosing to be associated with Hitler, Heidrich, and Streicher makes perfect sense! After all, the Antifa is out there!

I suppose that you would find it acceptable for a Christian to carry that Nazi banner, as long as it is carried with a proper sense of irony, and enough time has passed so it can be recognized in a positive way?

And just how can its associations be made to be seen in a positive light?

Have you ever considered why Nazism and the Nazi flag have such negative associations for so many?

[shunyadragon]

Can a cultural symbol be adopted and repurposed by a new generation or a different group of people? I think so.

More common is aspects of a cultural symbol being adopted by a different culture, with some parts being ignored or discarded, or just not known about. I don't think that's wrong, either.

You did not answer the question.

Question: Can the Nazi flag be used to represent a cultural purpose other than what it was intended?

[shunyadragon]

Yes, choosing to be associated with Hitler, Heidrich, and Streicher makes perfect sense! After all, the Antifa is out there!

I suppose that you would find it acceptable for a Christian to carry that Nazi banner, as long as it is carried with a proper sense of irony, and enough time has passed so it can be recognized in a positive way?

And just how can its associations be made to be seen in a positive light?

Have you ever considered why Nazism and the Nazi flag have such negative associations for so many?

It is being insensitive to the negative consequences of violent immoral symbols of the past for a personal agenda, which is questionable. It is not a coincidence that the dominant claims of the legitimate use of the Confederate Flag are Southerners with sympathies for antibellum South

[Leonhard]

Question: Can the Nazi flag be used to represent a cultural purpose other than what it was intended?

False analogy.

[shunyadragon]

False analogy.

Not si. a legitimate analogy, both are symbols of immoral values and violence against other races or ethnic groups, and have been repurposed in an attempt to represent a cultural identity.

It is being horrendously insensitive to the negative consequences of violent immoral symbols of the past for a personal agenda of culture heritage, which is highly questionable as a motive. Hundreds of thousands of blacks have suffered and died under this Confederate flag. It is not a coincidence that the dominant claims of the legitimate use of the Confederate Flag are Southerners with sympathies for Antibellum Anglo Saxon supremacy Southern identity, which the flag represents.

[simplicio]

False analogy.

But it is pretty hard to repurpose, give new meaning to an older symbol. The cross was repurposed, a sign of weakness and humiliation, torture and violence. And it became a symbol for the Christian faith and the god who went to his death, and became a symbol of hope and love.

Place that cross on the lawn of a black family, light it on fire, then try to convince anyone, let alone that family that it is about agape.

The fiery cross, the swastika, and the battle flag of the army of Northern virginia were used with the intention of using evil and calling it good.

If anything, Shunyaadragon is guilty of loading the question because the some claim that its meaning was hijacked by racists, and so applying a meaning to the symbol that it did not carry. (But at no time in that flag's history was anyone shocked that it was used as a symbol for whole supremacy). It is a false analogy only if it is a virtuous symbol.

[shunyadragon]

But it is pretty hard to repurpose, give new meaning to an older symbol. The cross was repurposed, a sign of weakness and humiliation, torture and violence. And it became a symbol for the Christian faith and the god who went to his death, and became a symbol of hope and love.

Place that cross on the lawn of a black family, light it on fire, then try to convince anyone, let alone that family that it is about agape.

The fiery cross, the swastika, and the battle flag of the army of Northern virginia were used with the intention of using evil and calling it good.

If anything, Shunyaadragon is guilty of loading the question because the some claim that its meaning was hijacked by racists, and so applying a meaning to the symbol that it did not carry. (But at no time in that flag's history was anyone shocked that it was used as a symbol for whole supremacy). It is a false analogy only if it is a virtuous symbol.

Disagree that racists and white supremacists hijacked the Confederate flag to be symbol it did not carry. It was originally a symbol of the secessioist South that believed in the supremacy of the white race, and perpetuation of slavery based on state rights.