Originally posted by Watermelon
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostHow the proceedings were run is a matter of opinion which everyone is entitled to but critiquing it for not applying the strictest standards for evidence or meeting the highest threshold of proving their case beyond reasonable doubt is just wrong.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Cow Poke View PostWhat really matters is how the majority of Americans perceived it. Perception is reality in the world of politics. Maybe other polling will come out to the contrary, but so far, it appears that the Dems committed an unforced error.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostIt's true that public perception is the actual standard they need to meet. Unfortunately if that standard is to demand the rules of evidence and complain about hearsay while also thinking its fine for material witnesses to ignore subpoenas then even the Supreme Court won't be able to meet those standards. Then you've effectively lost the only constitutional protection to remove an oppressive president."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostIt's true that public perception is the actual standard they need to meet. Unfortunately if that standard is to demand the rules of evidence and complain about hearsay while also thinking its fine for material witnesses to ignore subpoenas then even the Supreme Court won't be able to meet those standards. Then you've effectively lost the only constitutional protection to remove an oppressive president.The first to state his case seems right until another comes and cross-examines him.
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostThe official theory seems to be exec privilege - but there's an open question about the validity of the subpoenas. Here the House Dems have a recourse to the courts - which they utterly ignored. Many of them are attorneys so it's not like they don't know (as litigious as we are it's inconceivable that no Dem reps have considered a suit) which leaves that they don't want the courts to rule. They're in DC - court shopping central - so something's very odd here. Are they afraid of an adverse precedent - or are they unsure about having any possibility of a favorable ruling?
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostHow the proceedings were run is a matter of opinion which everyone is entitled to but critiquing it for not applying the strictest standards for evidence or meeting the highest threshold of proving their case beyond reasonable doubt is just wrong.
As an aside, as I predicted we are seeing a continuous effort to elevate hearsay gossip into something legitimate (let's not worry about strict standards of evidence) like when Rep. Mike Quigley (D - IL) insisted that "hearsay can be much better evidence than direct."
1. Given how Schiff "clarified" the phone call between Trump and Zelensky in his alternate reality "portrayal" of it in his opening statements (and how the MSM dutifully reported it as representing what was actually said) one would be justified in presuming that his "clarification" of witnesses' statements might also be accuracy challenged.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostEh, if she's playing chess she'd better hope she doesn't need all the pieces she keeps losing.
I personally think they're both playing Chutes and Ladders - but neither understands the rules...
Click on to playLast edited by rogue06; 11-26-2019, 04:34 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostThe official theory seems to be exec privilege - but there's an open question about the validity of the subpoenas. Here the House Dems have a recourse to the courts - which they utterly ignored. Many of them are attorneys so it's not like they don't know (as litigious as we are it's inconceivable that no Dem reps have considered a suit) which leaves that they don't want the courts to rule. They're in DC - court shopping central - so something's very odd here. Are they afraid of an adverse precedent - or are they unsure about having any possibility of a favorable ruling?
That they likewise appear to have stopped pressuring John Bolton who said he was awaiting what the courts said in Kupperman's case is interesting. It's almost like Schiff knew that the subpoenas that he issued might not withstand judicial scrutiny.
ETA: Since Kupperman was the one to file the suit the Democrats were unable to judge shop for someone likely to grant them a favorable initial ruling.Last edited by rogue06; 11-26-2019, 04:47 AM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThe problem isn't that they didn't apply the strictest stand
ards of evidence or the like but that they apparently had no standards other than "all's fair in love and war." Imagine a "judge" stopping a witness so that he can "clarify" what they said[1]. Not asking the witness to clarify something but actually telling the witness what they meant.
As an aside, as I predicted we are seeing a continuous effort to elevate hearsay gossip into something legitimate (let's not worry about strict standards of evidence) like when Rep. Mike Quigley (D - IL) insisted that "hearsay can be much better evidence than direct."
1. Given how Schiff "clarified" the phone call between Trump and Zelensky in his alternate reality "portrayal" of it in his opening statements (and how the MSM dutifully reported it as representing what was actually said) one would be justified in presuming that his "clarification" of witnesses' statements might also be accuracy challenged.
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Wow there's a shocker. A bunch of politicians asking irrelevant questions and making speeches and the like. Still, none of that rises to a chairman of a hearing telling the witnesses what they mean as he keeps interrupting them to "clarify" their statements for them.
As for nothing of value being said after an opening statement... It was after his opening statement that Sondland had to keep walking back his claim (that there was quid pro quo) so far that it left the building.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostDoes Mike Quigley happen to be overweight by any chance?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostThey didn't ignore the courts. They ran full speed in the opposite direction from the courts when Charles Kupperman appealed to them for guidance dropping their subpoena of him like a hot potato.
That they likewise appear to have stopped pressuring John Bolton who said he was awaiting what the courts said in Kupperman's case is interesting. It's almost like Schiff knew that the subpoenas that he issued might not withstand judicial scrutiny.
ETA: Since Kupperman was the one to file the suit the Democrats were unable to judge shop for someone likely to grant them a favorable initial ruling.
There are a large number of options beyond 'they know they would not succeed".My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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