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Impeachment Process - Read OP Before Posting
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Originally posted by seer View PostOK what does all this mean - speak English please...Last edited by JimL; 10-12-2019, 07:45 AM.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostIt means that Congress makes its own rules of procedure, and they can do so at each convening."Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings".
Basically, the Supreme Court tries to stay out of political fights, but there is some judicial case law on impeachment in place and the Court has never eliminated the possibility of Judicial Review.
The more important for the debate is Wilkinson - it's linked above if you want to read it yourself. Also, unless specified in the decision (extremely rare) case law doesn't expire - it stays in place until overturned or legislated away (can be done unless it's a constitutional issue the congress can't get around).Last edited by Teallaura; 10-12-2019, 08:02 AM."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
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Originally posted by JimLamebrain View PostIt means that Congress makes its own rules of procedure, and they can do so at each convening. According to the Constitution>"Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings".Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Starlight View PostThe minority party in the House used to have subpoena power, but the Republicans changed that when they were in the majority. Now that the Republicans are in the minority they seem to be regretting that change. They probably should have thought more carefully about it before shooting themselves in the foot.
I'm also pretty sure this isn't wholly correct - I think you've got it confused with the rule changes - but please don't debate it here."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostWithin the boundaries of the law, of course, and according to judicial precedent, House committees do not have subpoena authority until authorized by the House, which means holding a vote. So why won't Nancy do it? Democrats have the majority, so even a straight party line vote would be in their favor, and then everything would be official and legally enforceable. So why won't they? What are they afraid of?
No debating the current impeachment in this thread! Bad MM, bad!!!
Seriously, this thread is just for discussion and reference about the impeachment process."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
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Originally posted by Teallaura View Post*emphasis mine
No debating the current impeachment in this thread! Bad MM, bad!!!
Seriously, this thread is just for discussion and reference about the impeachment process.Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostNo, Jim, he was asking about the cases. I'm still reading Eastland and won't start on Wilkinson until tomorrow at the earliest.
Basically, the Supreme Court tries to stay out of political fights, but there is some judicial case law on impeachment in place and the Court has never eliminated the possibility of Judicial Review.
The more important for the debate is Wilkinson - it's linked above if you want to read it yourself. Also, unless specified in the decision (extremely rare) case law doesn't expire - it stays in place until overturned or legislated away (can be done unless it's a constitutional issue the congress can't get around).
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThere is no case law that trumps Congressional rules, as Congress determines their own rules of procedure. The courts may have made a previous judgement based on the then existing Congressional rules, but the court has no discretion as to what those rules will be. The House has the sole power of impeachment and "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings."Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by JimL View PostThere is no case law that trumps Congressional rules, as Congress determines their own rules of procedure. The courts may have made a previous judgement based on the then existing Congressional rules, but the court has no discretion as to what those rules will be. The House has the sole power of impeachment and "Each House may determine the rules of its proceedings."
You'd literally have to get the Supreme Court to overturn Marbury v Madison to make this work.
If you want to debate it, I'm game, but please start another thread. This will get messy and I want this thread to stay boringly neat."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostJim, the Supreme Court has the power of Judicial Review - it can and has ruled against Congressional procedures in the past. That is case law and does in fact trump congressional rules - rules that do not have the force of law.
You'd literally have to get the Supreme Court to overturn Marbury v Madison to make this work.
If you want to debate it, I'm game, but please start another thread. This will get messy and I want this thread to stay boringly neat.
Not that it would matter anyway, Tea. They could take a vote, and contrary to what you're hearing, it wouldn't change a thing. The majority, in this case the democrats, after voting in the affirmative, would still have control over every aspect of the investigation. This is simply a political move, and a stall, on the part of the guilty party, i.e. Trump and his band of thieves.
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Originally posted by JimL View PostWell show me the past SCOTUS ruling that overturned a Congressional procedure, or where they ruled that a particular procedure was unconstitutional. As a matter of fact, show me the particular ruling that says Congress must take a floor vote prior to an impeachment inquiry.
Not that it would matter anyway, Tea. They could take a vote, and contrary to what you're hearing, it wouldn't change a thing. The majority, in this case the democrats, after voting in the affirmative, would still have control over every aspect of the investigation. This is simply a political move, and a stall, on the part of the guilty party, i.e. Trump and his band of thieves."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Since this came up, including it here:
"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostJim, the Supreme Court has the power of Judicial Review - it can and has ruled against Congressional procedures in the past. That is case law and does in fact trump congressional rules - rules that do not have the force of law.
You'd literally have to get the Supreme Court to overturn Marbury v Madison to make this work.
If you want to debate it, I'm game, but please start another thread. This will get messy and I want this thread to stay boringly neat.
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Originally posted by Watermelon View PostAre you sure? It doesn't sound right. Like you said congressional procedures and rules aren't law so how can it be subject to judicial review? And they dont have the power to make anything binding on congress since congress can pass legislation to replace supreme court decisions.
The Court avoids internal matters in the other branches - but it occasionally does rule on them. This is where executive privilege is established - in cases brought to the Court by the Exec against Congress (Nixon). And earlier we have Wilkinson, which is directly pertinent to the impeachment.
The Congress can overwrite Court decisions with law - but only so long as the new law is itself constitutional. This is why Marbury would have to be overturned to make this workable."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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