Botham Jean witness ambushed, killed in parking lot

[KingsGambit]

Not random (which I grant because no killing is truly random) doesn't equal related. No known enemies doesn't equal no enemies.

Just once, could we let them actually investigate before drawing conclusions?

I do not trust the Dallas PD to investigate this. The FBI needs to be involved.

[demi-conservative]

Why? Just because he's black?

Because most of such ambushing shootings are gang-related.

But the CNN blows a dog whistle, and all the well-trained folk fantasise about a KKK-style execution.

[Cow Poke]

I do not trust the Dallas PD to investigate this. The FBI needs to be involved.

I would normally suggest the Texas Rangers - this is what they do. However, it appears that their handling of this was also challenged as suspect, so...

[Teallaura]

I do not trust the Dallas PD to investigate this. The FBI needs to be involved.

I think the concern is unfounded, but I fully agree with the conclusion. Under the circumstances, we need an outside investigation.

[Teallaura]

Why? Just because he's black?

Statistically, yes. And before you get mad you just called for an FBI investigation - the same organization that compiles those stats.

[KingsGambit]

Statistically, yes. And before you get mad you just called for an FBI investigation - the same organization that compiles those stats.

But we have the additional contextual information of him A) being a star witness of a very high profile investigation this week and B) having no apparent gang ties. Arguing that because he's black this nonetheless outweighs these is pure obstinancy.

[Teallaura]

But we have the additional contextual information of him A) being a star witness of a very high profile investigation this week and B) having no apparent gang ties. Arguing that because he's black this nonetheless outweighs these is pure obstinancy.

We have preliminary reports that he was facing away from his attackers - and a boatload of mistaken identity gang related killings. Taking gang crime off the table at this stage is pure stupidity. We don't know squat yet - let alone what weight to apply to any given factor.

Just ONCE investigate THEN draw conclusions.

[KingsGambit]

We have preliminary reports that he was facing away from his attackers - and a boatload of mistaken identity gang related killings. Taking gang crime off the table at this stage is pure stupidity. We don't know squat yet - let alone what weight to apply to any given factor.

Just ONCE investigate THEN draw conclusions.

I'm not drawing a conclusion. I'm saying that this looks very bad and that there is good reason not to trust Dallas PD (if for no other reason than what CP said about his inside knowledge about just how bad the department culture is).

And you say that we can't know how to weigh factors, but you're willing to say that gang violence is most likely because he's black. You can't have it both ways.

[Teallaura]

I'm not drawing a conclusion. I'm saying that this looks very bad and that there is good reason not to trust Dallas PD (if for no other reason than what CP said about his inside knowledge about just how bad the department culture is).

If by 'very bad' you mean 'mind numbingly stupid', sure. Accusing, even by innuendo, the Dallas PD is really weird - they have nothing apparent to gain and much to lose.

But hey, why wait for facts, right?

[Cow Poke]

I'm not drawing a conclusion. I'm saying that this looks very bad and that there is good reason not to trust Dallas PD (if for no other reason than what CP said about his inside knowledge about just how bad the department culture is).

And you say that we can't know how to weigh factors, but you're willing to say that gang violence is most likely because he's black. You can't have it both ways.

I'm actually a little surprised at what I've heard lately from people close to the situation in Dallas. (nothing so far about this situation)

It's almost sounding like a situation we had years ago in Vidor, Texas where it was legendary that racism was not only acceptable, but.... as one former Vidor policeman infamously stated "we don't report racism - we grade it!"

(I did one of my college research papers on Institutional Racism in Local Police Departments in Texas, and Vidor was my key contributor for data)

[Cow Poke]

If by 'very bad' you mean 'mind numbingly stupid', sure. Accusing, even by innuendo, the Dallas PD is really weird - they have nothing apparent to gain and much to lose.

There's a really weird dynamic there, indeed. There sees to be a lot of fragmentation in the department with a current black female Police Chief who "cleaned house" by demoting or firing a lot of the senior command staff. There's a lot of resentment. Apparently, some (many?) of the officers are unhappy with their supervisors, and the police union is fanning the flames. It is, in my opinion, a department in crisis.

When you say that the Dallas Police Department "has nothing apparent to gain and much to lose", that assumes there's actually a "department".

I'll go further - I believe the current Police Chief is punching way above her weight, and morale and discipline are in the toilet. As a result, they've had an incredibly hard time recruiting qualified candidates, and many of their seasoned officers have jumped ship. Last I heard, they were trying to fill SIX HUNDRED vacancies.

[KingsGambit]

If by 'very bad' you mean 'mind numbingly stupid', sure. Accusing, even by innuendo, the Dallas PD is really weird - they have nothing apparent to gain and much to lose.

But hey, why wait for facts, right?

You're assuming I'm arguing that this was actually an organized hit by the organization as a whole. Nope.

And no response to my question about why it's okay for you to assume it was gang violence because he's black but it's not okay for me to be suspicious based on everything else?

[Teallaura]

You're assuming I'm arguing that this was actually an organized hit by the organization as a whole. Nope.

No, I'm stating you have implied it. I might be mistaken, but that certainly seemed to be the thrust.

And no response to my question about why it's okay for you to assume it was gang violence because he's black but it's not okay for me to be suspicious based on everything else?

I DIDN'T assume that. At. All.

'Don't take it off the table' is NOT an expression of that assumption. IT IS an answer to your question, however.

Why is gang violence on the table? Because of the unbelievably high statistical correlation between race and gang violence. YOU argued we shouldn't even consider it because the only known correlation is race.

[Cow Poke]

For information only - this not the first time Brown has been involved (as a victim) in a shooting - December 2018.

Man arrested in fatal shooting outside Dallas strip club after Thanksgiving

A 26-year-old man has been arrested in connection with a fatal shooting outside a Dallas strip club after Thanksgiving.

Kendall Deshonn Morris was booked Wednesday on a murder charge in the death of Nicholas Shaq'uan Diggs outside Dallas Cabaret.

Diggs, 25, was found dead in the street around 4:45 a.m. Nov. 23 in the 2400 block of Walnut Ridge Street. A second victim, 28-year-old Joshua Brown, was wounded in the shooting.

Morris and another man are accused in the fatal shooting. The second suspect has not been arrested.

Court records show Diggs, Morris and the second suspect were celebrating a birthday and had gone to several other clubs before stopping at Dallas Cabaret.

While at one of the clubs, the group ran into Brown, who also went to the strip club on Walnut Ridge.

The second suspect waited for Brown outside the club to fight him. The men fought in the middle of the street. Afterward, Brown and his friends tried to leave, according to an arrest warrant affidavit.

That's when Morris reached into a Chevrolet Avalanche, pulled out a gun and handed the weapon to the other suspect, witnesses told police, the warrant says.

The second suspect started shooting, striking Brown and Diggs. Brown was hit in the foot.

[demi-conservative]

For information only - this not the first time Brown has been involved (as a victim) in a shooting - December 2018.

Too late, Fake News is already in full spin mode.