Originally posted by Charles
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Trump Administration Whistleblower Cover-Up
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I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostAlso...
Former CIA analyst Fred Fleitz has extensive knowledge of the whistleblower process. Fleitz says the Ukraine call whistleblower is likely driven by political motives, and his sources indicate he had help from Congress members while writing it.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com...-schiff-staff/
As this all unfolds we'll see if any of this is true or not.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by Sam View PostEasy way to solve this:
Was >$300 million in military aid to Ukraine withheld along what we'd consider normal channels? Like, there's a clear rationale at State Dept, clear memos and directions at OMB to resolve whatever is preventing the funding from being delivered? Did State/OMB officials know what's going on?
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostThe sound of mm's big conspiracy cracking and crumbling ...
JimSome may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostZelensky and other Ukrainian officials are now on record saying they were not aware that there any sort of delay was put on the aid. Now I don't know about you but for most folks it is really difficult to strongarm someone into doing something if they are totally unaware that such an effort is even taking place.
Yeah, but that's totally what you would expect a victim to say! Would you really expect someone who had been extorted by a mob boss to go on record to admit they had been extorted? Zelensky's denial and other wanting evidence is all the proof we need that Trump is guilty!
[/liberal conspiracy mode]Some may call me foolish, and some may call me odd
But I'd rather be a fool in the eyes of man
Than a fool in the eyes of God
From "Fools Gold" by Petra
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Anyone else noticing the not so subtle shift on the left away from wanting folks to see the transcript to now hardly mentioning it and instead focusing nearly all their efforts on the "whistleblower's" complaint instead?
Yet another indication that the actual conversation just doesn't match up to what they claim was said.
It's kind of like someone telling you not to actually watch a sporting event but instead rely on the analysis of it that they'll provide.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostZelensky and other Ukrainian officials are now on record saying they were not aware that there any sort of delay was put on the aid. Now I don't know about you but for most folks it is really difficult to strongarm someone into doing something if they are totally unaware that such an effort is even taking place.
And the timeline here doesn't even really need to be precise: Giuliani had been trying to goad Ukrainian officials into investigating Biden for some time. He had talked explicitly with 2-3 lead prosecutors, only to have to start again when they were sacked. The Zelensky administration was aware that Trump wanted Biden investigated. Whether Zelensky knew that aid was being withheld shortly before or shortly after the call is not particularly relevant: he either did or [i]would/i] know aid was being withheld and would understand the nature of the "favor" he could provide to get that aid moving.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnyone else noticing the not so subtle shift on the left away from wanting folks to see the transcript to now hardly mentioning it and instead focusing nearly all their efforts on the "whistleblower's" complaint instead?
Yet another indication that the actual conversation just doesn't match up to what they claim was said.
It's kind of like someone telling you not to actually watch a sporting event but instead rely on the analysis of it that they'll provide.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostZelensky and other Ukrainian officials are now on record saying they were not aware that there any sort of delay was put on the aid. Now I don't know about you but for most folks it is really difficult to strongarm someone into doing something if they are totally unaware that such an effort is even taking place.
And I'll add:
Whatever Zelensky knew at the time is irrelevant to the point I made: was there a clear and documented rationale for withholding aid, one that confirms the contemporaneous rationales provided to Congress by the administration? Were they telling the truth -- in which case we'd be able to follow the chain of action through the agencies -- or were they lying and no such rationale existed?
That's a question with a fairly clear investigative pathway, one that doesn't rely on trying to figure out when the Ukrainian government was made aware that the aid package had stalled (though, assuming they were interested in the funding and could read US news, would've been well before September even without talking to the administration or Giuliani).
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThere is obviously a significant difference between someone who possesses "indirect evidence", and someone like this whistleblower dealing in idle rumors and secondhand-at-best hearsay. Why else would they need to change the rules to explicitly allow "heard from others" as a legitimate source of a complaint?
One respondent to the Twitter thread you linked to shrewdly asks:
"Would indirect evidence include verbal hearsay of not strictly fact, but whatever fact that was accompanied by personal conjecture in regard to motivation?"
Like I said, if you don't smell a coordinated setup then you're naive -- or possibly willfully ignorant.
Listen to the lawyers, not trash sites"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Mountain Man View PostThe sound of Jim throwing an ad hominem fallacy against the wall to see if it sticks because he can't actually address the point made.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Sam View Post
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostI would hope your imagination would eventually track with reality a bit better. We already have a 2 year history of the type of investigation the Dems like to do.
--Sam"I wonder about the trees. / Why do we wish to bear / Forever the noise of these / More than another noise / Robert Frost, "The Sound of Trees"
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Originally posted by Sam View PostDemocrats have controlled the House for less than a year.
--Sam
So I am talking about 'control' not just numbers. Don't you know that Trump was elected to overcome all these years of America falling into the pit?
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Originally posted by mikewhitney View PostIt has been a long year ... going on since Reagan and Carter. The typical Republican subjects decisions primarily to appeal to (or appease) the Democrats.
So I am talking about 'control' not just numbers. Don't you know that Trump was elected to overcome all these years of America falling into the pit?
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