Originally posted by oxmixmudd
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Gun Control - moved from E-cig thread
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostAnybody who has ever gone hunting regularly can tell you that a .30-30 or 30.06 has a lot more stopping power (does far more damage to the target) than a .223 ever will.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostBecause there are a lot of variables. Velocity is just one. A 45 will do a lot more damage than an AR15, especially with a hollow point round. And using a high velocity larger caliber round in another rifle would do even more damage. The AR15 is not a military weapon and not some especially powerful gun. It is just a normal semi-automatic rifle, with some military looking accessories. It is not even a very powerful rifle as rifles go. As Little Joe said, it is illegal in many places to hunt deer with them because it is unlikely to kill the deer and leave it wounded and suffering.
Your claim that AR15's are some especially powerful gun, worse than other guns and needs special regulations is incorrect.
They are no more deadly than any other semi-auto gun. And yet you are not calling for the regulation of other rifles.
1) The AR15 is a specific and well known example of semi-automatic assault style rifle. It is by no means the only such gun that needs regulating.
2) The Ar15 has more kinetic energy in its bullet than any pistol you've listed, but has the kick of a 22 LR. this means the gun can be kept pointed at the target as rounds are fired quickly without a great deal of training.
3) I have not made specific claims to what needs to be regulated, excepting the general class of rifle that AR15 rifle fits into. So I've not made any comments leaving out more powerful semi-automatics. But I don't think we would want to include a single shot 30.06 into the mix just because it is 'more powerful'. Raw power is not the primary consideration.
4) Pistols are held in the hands, not up against the shoulder, and have much less recoil absorption capability, and they tend to be less accurate due to their shorter barrels, shooting position, and higher recoil.
Hollowpoints are incredibly destructive no matter what their source. But that is more about the ammunition and how that should be regulated.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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I believe that Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel more than demonstrated this back in July 2015 when he mowed over hundreds of people in Nice, France using a cargo truck resulting in 86 dead and 458 injured.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell first Jim, even a revolver is semi automatic.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post1) The AR15 is a specific and well known example of semi-automatic assault style rifle. It is by no means the only such gun that needs regulating.
2) The Ar15 has more kinetic energy in its bullet than any pistol you've listed, but has the kick of a 22 LR. this means the gun can be kept pointed at the target as rounds are fired quickly without a great deal of training.
3) I have not made specific claims to what needs to be regulated, excepting the general class of rifle that AR15 rifle fits into. So I've not made any comments leaving out more powerful semi-automatics. But I don't think we would want to include a single shot 30.06 into the mix just because it is 'more powerful'. Raw power is not the primary consideration.
4) Pistols are held in the hands, not up against the shoulder, and have much less recoil absorption capability, and they tend to be less accurate due to their shorter barrels, shooting position, and higher recoil.
Hollowpoints are incredibly destructive no matter what their source. But that is more about the ammunition and how that should be regulated.
Jim"The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by rogue06 View PostI believe that Mohamed Lahouaiej-Bouhlel more than demonstrated this back in July 2015 when he mowed over hundreds of people in Nice, France using a cargo truck resulting in 86 dead and 458 injured."The man from the yacht thought he was the first to find England; I thought I was the first to find Europe. I did try to found a heresy of my own; and when I had put the last touches to it, I discovered that it was orthodoxy."
GK Chesterton; Orthodoxy
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Originally posted by seer View PostWell first Jim, even a revolver is semi automatic. Second, I don't distinguish between mass shooting and regular murder. Dead is dead. And the fact is most mass shootings done with a long rifle could have been done with a pistol - except the Las Vegas thing. Far more people are killed in this country by pistols as opposed to long rifles. As I said when we actually had a national ban on "assault rifles" 1994-2004 there really wasn't much, if any, effect.
I do distinguish between a single murder and mass murder.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot when it comes to reload or capacity. 6 shots typically, then you pop the bullets out and put 6 more in one at a time. A true semi automatic, you pop out the empty clip, slide in the new one, chamber the first round , and you're ready for another 10 or more shots (9MM GLOCK)
I do distinguish between a single murder and mass murder.
Jim
1. 140 years actually. From the 1879 patent for the first:
Last edited by rogue06; 09-18-2019, 02:25 PM.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI do distinguish between a single murder and mass murder.
JimAtheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
Comment
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View Post1) The AR15 is a specific and well known example of semi-automatic assault style rifle. It is by no means the only such gun that needs regulating.
2) The Ar15 has more kinetic energy in its bullet than any pistol you've listed, but has the kick of a 22 LR. this means the gun can be kept pointed at the target as rounds are fired quickly without a great deal of training.
3) I have not made specific claims to what needs to be regulated, excepting the general class of rifle that AR15 rifle fits into. So I've not made any comments leaving out more powerful semi-automatics. But I don't think we would want to include a single shot 30.06 into the mix just because it is 'more powerful'. Raw power is not the primary consideration.
4) Pistols are held in the hands, not up against the shoulder, and have much less recoil absorption capability, and they tend to be less accurate due to their shorter barrels, shooting position, and higher recoil.
Hollowpoints are incredibly destructive no matter what their source. But that is more about the ammunition and how that should be regulated.
Jim
2. The kinetic energy of a 223 is pretty much low end for a rifle. A shotgun has over 3 times as much.
And dead is dead. at close range you will die from a 9mm as dead as from a .223 from an AR-15.
3. The "general class the AR15 fits into" is middle of the road for a rifle. Nothing special.
4. You can shoot a pistol as fast as you can an AR15. And it is easier to maneuver in tight quarters, like indoors, where most mass shootings take place. And aiming is not a problem because these shooters are not carefully aiming their AR15s. They are just pointing and shooting at very close range.
There is no reason to make special regulations for AR15s.
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostNot when it comes to reload or capacity. 6 shots typically, then you pop the bullets out and put 6 more in one at a time. A true semi automatic, you pop out the empty clip, slide in the new one, chamber the first round , and you're ready for another 10 or more shots (9MM GLOCK)
I do distinguish between a single murder and mass murder.
Jim
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostMy 9mm Ruger has a 17 round magazine.
I'm always still in trouble again
"You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
"Overall I would rate the withdrawal from Afghanistan as by far the best thing Biden's done" --Starlight
"Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman
Comment
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Originally posted by Sparko View Post1. It isn't an assault weapon, by assault "style" it merely is talking about cosmetics.
2. The kinetic energy of a 223 is pretty much low end for a rifle. A shotgun has over 3 times as much.
And dead is dead. at close range you will die from a 9mm as dead as from a .223 from an AR-15.
3. The "general class the AR15 fits into" is middle of the road for a rifle. Nothing special.
4. You can shoot a pistol as fast as you can an AR15. And it is easier to maneuver in tight quarters, like indoors, where most mass shootings take place. And aiming is not a problem because these shooters are not carefully aiming their AR15s. They are just pointing and shooting at very close range.
There is no reason to make special regulations for AR15s.
And I said LIKE the AR15. There may be other weapons, maybe even a lot of other weapons, that are even MORE optimal, but less well known or less easy to acquire.
But that said - access to ALL of them would need to be controlled.
And honestly, after looking at the stats, you could make a case for tougher restrictions on high capacity magazines for semi-automatic pistols, and some states do limit them to 10 rounds.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by rogue06 View Postroguetech has a 30 shot revolver
[ATTACH=CONFIG]39769[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]39770[/ATTACH]
Robin: holy revolving chambers batman - what is THAT!
bang bang bang bang ... bang bang
Batman: Hold on Robin, If I remember correctly ... that particular weapon had 30 shots. lets see 28, 29, 30 ... go
<Biff> <Blatt> <Zing> <Smack>
Robin: Well, we got him Batman. Wait till Commissioner Gordon sees THIS!Last edited by oxmixmudd; 09-18-2019, 03:09 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
Comment
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