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  • #46
    Originally posted by Charles View Post
    She is finding the idea that she would support it so absurd that she refuses to answer the question. That is more than condemnation but of course those who like to focus on otherness or insinuations will focus on the fact that she did not answer the question and ignore her reason for not doing so. Thus they will ignore both her most important point and that it is more than condemnation.
    So... then Trump shouldn't be criticized for not immediately condemning white supremacists for any atrocities that they might commit because the idea that he would support them is so absurd that he ought to refuse to answer the question.

    The fact is that Omar and Tlaib both have close connections with groups that either sponsor or support terrorism. Just look at the group that was helping to sponsor their recent trip to Israel for just one example.

    I'm always still in trouble again

    "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
    "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

    Comment


    • #47
      Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
      Any Muslim who doesn't take up arms and kill infidels is not practicing his religion as commanded by his scriptures and the example example of his religion's founder. It's why I say that Muslim terrorists are not extremist, they're orthodox.
      To be clear, it isn't so much a command to kill the infidels as it is to force them to convert. And then if they refuse...

      I'm always still in trouble again

      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
        Read the quote from her about 9/11.
        This one?

        September 11th was an attack on all of us.

        We will never forget the thousands of Americans who lost their lives in the largest terror attack on U.S. soil.

        I will continue to fight to make sure we care for the first responders and families who lost loved ones. #NeverForget
        https://twitter.com/IlhanMN/status/1171785865519075333
        "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

        Comment


        • #49
          Originally posted by Sparko View Post
          So you admit she refuses to condemn Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism, then?
          I consider your challenge to me to provide a source for my statement completed.


          --

          If someone said I supported White Supremacy I would tell them no I don't, I condemn it. I wouldn't play games and say "I find that too absurd to answer" - that is the answer of someone trying to dodge the issue.
          Here is what you left out when you quoted me: "That is more than condemnation but of course those who like to focus on otherness or insinuations will focus on the fact that she did not answer the question and ignore her reason for not doing so. Thus they will ignore both her most important point and that it is more than condemnation."

          So, we disagree on that. Fair enough.
          "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

          Comment


          • #50
            Originally posted by Mountain Man View Post
            No where in the Bible will you find a call to arms to spread Christianity.
            The Bible has an entire section where God Himself called openly for genocide. And that it was explicit genocide as well, with even children being killed as part of the order.

            The Koran explicitly calls for the death of any who refuse to submit.
            So does the Bible, and for most of Christian history being an atheist or criticizing Christianity was a capitol offense.

            Any Muslim who doesn't take up arms and kill infidels is not practicing his religion
            If you actually believed this sentence, you ought to be a Muslim.

            Islam is made up. There isn't any divinely mandated Islam out there. So this sentence of yours is complete nonsense. There are at least five major branches of Islam, and within those various disagreements with each other. There is more diversity with the Islamic community over interpretation than there is between Christian churches. The gulf seperating a Suffi from a Wahabi is so vast they practically consider each other as being different religions.

            Comment


            • #51
              Is the listed support for Al Qaeda post 9/11 more attributable to anti-Americanism or to an actual, consistently violent worldview? (I'm working under the assumption here that the two can be separated, though I understand this is a point many will not be willing to grant.)

              I know a family friend who moved to Europe and is a professor in a secular Scandanavian country. He personally told me that he asked a class shortly after 9/11 who thought America got what it deserved, and hands shot up everywhere.
              "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

              Comment


              • #52
                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                So... then Trump shouldn't be criticized for not immediately condemning white supremacists for any atrocities that they might commit because the idea that he would support them is so absurd that he ought to refuse to answer the question.
                Ususally I would agree. I can understand why some people based on Trump's statements (go back where they came from, xxxxhole countries, good people on both sides etc.) would think otherwise.

                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                The fact is that Omar and Tlaib both have close connections with groups that either sponsor or support terrorism. Just look at the group that was helping to sponsor their recent trip to Israel for just one example.
                Source?
                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                Comment


                • #53
                  Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                  The Bible has an entire section where God Himself called openly for genocide. And that it was explicit genocide as well, with even children being killed as part of the order.

                  Mountain Man's comment was "No where in the Bible will you find a call to arms to spread Christianity." What you said does not refute this.
                  "I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Sparko View Post
                    So you admit she refuses to condemn Al Qaeda and Islamic terrorism, then
                    She's condemned the terrorism, you're just mad she doesn't blame it on Islam.

                    Comment


                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Charles View Post
                      You literally had to deliberately ignore the quote in the image that ox was asking about.

                      I'm always still in trouble again

                      "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                      "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                        Mountain Man's comment was "No where in the Bible will you find a call to arms to spread Christianity." What you said does not refute this.
                        And I can easily imagine some weird Christian sect believing that because God commanded genocide, then genocide cannot be evil. And use that to defend completely annihilating some other group in a civil war, such as the Hutu who tried to completely destroy the Tutsi in Rwanda. I would disagree with them. Just as I see Islamic scholars making fairly good arguments doing with those who believe its not just to perpetrate religious war, or to kill infidels.

                        At the very least if you wanna thinly quote-mine the Quran or Hadith, you've ceded all argument to atheists who strip-mine the Bible for "embarrassing" quotes. If we can go at it context-less and without an intellectual discussion, then the Bible also contains stuff like delinquent sons being stoned to death, homosexuals being stoned to death, people working on the sabbath being stoned to death, foreskins as marriage proposals are good, coloured sticks can cause sheeps offsprings wool to change color, etc...

                        Is there a context in which those sentences are understood properly yes. And when atheists don't give us the time to learn this context we accuse them rightfully of being bigoted and ignorant.

                        But when we won't listen to Islamic scholars with the same fervor that we're listened to?

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          Ususally I would agree. I can understand why some people based on Trump's statements (go back where they came from, xxxxhole countries, good people on both sides etc.) would think otherwise.
                          Have you ever been to some of the places mentioned? I have. "xxxxhole" was an insult to actual "xxxxholes."



                          Originally posted by Charles View Post
                          Source?
                          I was going to ask what rock you've been living under to not know about this but then remembered that most of the MSM deliberately spiked that part of the story in order to portray them as innocent victims.

                          I suggest that you look up Miftah, the group sponsoring their trip, which has, among other things, proudly praised female suicide bombers and routinely pushes the medieval blood libel (the long disproven myth that Jews ritually sacrifice Christian children at Passover in order to obtain blood for unleavened bread).

                          Shockingly, shortly after the incident, on CNN's Reliable Sources Bari Weiss, a New York Times staff editor in the opinion section frankly admitted that the MSM is ignoring Omar and Talib's blatant anti-Semitism. Responding to a question from host John Avlon, Weiss said:

                          "But another huge story, one that has not been covered by any mainstream paper or network is the fact that their trip to Israel, or as they're calling Palestine, was being sponsored by a group that literally published neo-Nazi blood libels and said that it supported female suicide bombers. You know, hailing them as heroes. That's a scandal.

                          If someone like Steve King was going to Sweden or Norway and eating with neo-Nazi groups, that would be front page news."

                          I'm always still in trouble again

                          "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                          "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                          Comment


                          • #58
                            Originally posted by KingsGambit View Post
                            Is the listed support for Al Qaeda post 9/11 more attributable to anti-Americanism or to an actual, consistently violent worldview? (I'm working under the assumption here that the two can be separated, though I understand this is a point many will not be willing to grant.)

                            I know a family friend who moved to Europe and is a professor in a secular Scandanavian country. He personally told me that he asked a class shortly after 9/11 who thought America got what it deserved, and hands shot up everywhere.
                            I have talked to very many anti-American people over the years (I know some would think I am one myself. I am not). I have found them condemning everything, even McDonald's (how dare they?). George Bush could hardly finish a sentence before they started. And, surprise, surprise, Trump did not change that for the better. However, I have never heard anyone saying America got what it deserved. They all seemed very aware - as one should always be also in cases of war - that the people who died were individual people of intrinsic worth.

                            There were two minutes of silence all over the University I went to and everyone had deep respect.

                            I know this is my experience and not statistics or something I can conclude is the case everywhere. I felt like sharing it anyway.
                            "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by Leonhard View Post
                              And I can easily imagine some weird Christian sect believing that because God commanded genocide, then genocide cannot be evil. And use that to defend completely annihilating some other group in a civil war, such as the Hutu who tried to completely destroy the Tutsi in Rwanda. I would disagree with them. Just as I see Islamic scholars making fairly good arguments doing with those who believe its not just to perpetrate religious war, or to kill infidels.

                              At the very least if you wanna thinly quote-mine the Quran or Hadith, you've ceded all argument to atheists who strip-mine the Bible for "embarrassing" quotes. If we can go at it context-less and without an intellectual discussion, then the Bible also contains stuff like delinquent sons being stoned to death, homosexuals being stoned to death, people working on the sabbath being stoned to death, foreskins as marriage proposals are good, coloured sticks can cause sheeps offsprings wool to change color, etc...

                              Is there a context in which those sentences are understood properly yes. And when atheists don't give us the time to learn this context we accuse them rightfully of being bigoted and ignorant.

                              But when we won't listen to Islamic scholars with the same fervor that we're listened to?
                              You don't have to "quote mine" anything. The verses ordering the forcible conversion are among the very last and abrogated any verses encouraging peaceful co-existence.

                              I'm always still in trouble again

                              "You're by far the worst poster on TWeb" and "TWeb's biggest liar" --starlight (the guy who says Stalin was a right-winger)
                              "Of course, human life begins at fertilization that’s not the argument." --Tassman

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Originally posted by rogue06 View Post
                                You literally had to deliberately ignore the quote in the image that ox was asking about.
                                That is not an actual quote. It is a part of a sentence.

                                However, talking about ignoring, you have to ignore the twitter post I made you aware of in order to justify the manipulation in the picture.
                                "Yes. President Trump is a huge embarrassment. And itís an embarrassment to evangelical Christianity that there appear to be so many who will celebrate precisely the aspects that I see Biblically as most lamentable and embarrassing." Southern Baptist leader Albert Mohler Jr.

                                Comment

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