Mass Shooting - Dayton Ohio

[seanD]

I wonder if there's some connection to the sorts of people that are attracted to those games in the first place. I've never been a gamer, and on the rare occasions I've played combat games, I've been shooting robots, spaceships, or monsters, not humans.

That's sort of like the question does media violence influence violence in society or is violence in media a symptom of a sick society. I think it's a combo of both, a vicious loop that feeds of one another, which is why it can't easily be solved.

[Adrift]

And the whole spooky movie thing took a turn when you were no longer an observer, but a participant, because the camera angle had "you" stalking the victim. Was that the first of the Halloween movies?

Way earlier than that. Psycho's shower scene is from the perspective of the killer, and before that even you had the 1931 Fritz Lang film "M" starring Peter Lorre that takes the perspective of the serial killer.

[DesertBerean]

I thought I was the only person who thought watching boxing was yuk. A "sport" where the INTENT is to knock the daylights out of your opponent just sounds.... barbaric.


ETA: As opposed, for example, to scantily clad morbidly obese men dancing with one another until one of them falls outside a circle.

Oh! :hand up: I don't like boxing either for just that reason!

[Cow Poke]

Way earlier than that. Psycho's shower scene is from the perspective of the killer, and before that even you had the 1931 Fritz Lang film "M" starring Peter Lorre that takes the perspective of the serial killer.

I'm old, so it could have been 60 years or so ago. But, yeah, the trend has been that "you" are the stalker/killer.

[Cow Poke]

Oh! :hand up: I don't like boxing either for just that reason!

I've always been conflicted about the "Golden Gloves" program --- getting kids out of gangs by having them get involved in boxing.... a noble effort, no doubt, but where does it lead?

[Mountain Man]

I love the movie "Kingsmen" -- especially the church massacre scene. I get such laffs out of that. But I won't watch boxing or other full-contact "striking" sports. I have a much different reaction internally when I know the violence I'm seeing is "real."

I'll happily play a violent video game, or watch a movie like "Gladiator", but when reading news sites, I skip over any story that includes the disclaimer "graphic images". I just don't want to see it because it's sickening to me.

[NorrinRadd]

Now, see, if you were watching The Evil Dead, Cannibal Holocaust, and Scanners back in the 80s early 90s like I was you would've already been done desensitized.

You do make a good point. My parents can now watch TV series that they would have never given a chance even 5 years ago. It started with Blacklist, then I got them on Prison Break and 24 (which was really intense for my mom). Now they're watching Breaking Bad/Better Call Saul like it's nothing.

Scanners was awesome!

[NorrinRadd]

Scot McKnight's blog has a long list of potential factors to blame, including movies, music, hockey, NASCAR, paintball, football, video games, and hunting. But note that he isn't individually blaming any of them; he says they are symptomatic of a culture of violence. I don't think that observation in itself can be dismissed, even if one wants to quibble with some of the details. I think "hunting for Bambi" should have been left off the list, personally.

(I'm kind of surprised to hear him come out against sports like that because he's one of the most outspoken sports fans in the Christian blogosphere and has talked about football on his blog, though his true love is baseball, which isn't mentioned.)

I'm not interested in discussing his gun control rant; that topic has been discussed to death elsewhere on here.

https://www.patheos.com/blogs/jesusc...me-for-change/

Kids have been playing "cops and robbers" and "cowboys and Indians" and "soldiers" FOREVER. "Bang! You're dead!" Is that really THAT much different from "paintball"?

[KingsGambit]

"Bang! You're dead!" Is that really THAT much different from "paintball"?

Well, for one, one involves actually shooting and one doesn't.

(I seriously doubt paintball is relevant in the gun control discussion though. But I think McKnight is just throwing ideas out there.)

[NorrinRadd]

I thought I was the only person who thought watching boxing was yuk. A "sport" where the INTENT is to knock the daylights out of your opponent just sounds.... barbaric.


ETA: As opposed, for example, to scantily clad morbidly obese men dancing with one another until one of them falls outside a circle.

I *do* enjoy watching "grappling" sports.

[KingsGambit]

I thought I was the only person who thought watching boxing was yuk. A "sport" where the INTENT is to knock the daylights out of your opponent just sounds.... barbaric.


ETA: As opposed, for example, to scantily clad morbidly obese men dancing with one another until one of them falls outside a circle.

More and more I find it more difficult to watch football because of the violence inherent in it; it's more than just tackling; placing hits is a big part of the game. Baseball and basketball I have an easier time with; there's contact but not on such a violent level.

[Adrift]

I'm old, so it could have been 60 years or so ago. But, yeah, the trend has been that "you" are the stalker/killer.

Film in general has a bit of a voyeuristic touch about it. Even if you weren't the stalker, some critics and directors suggest the audience is complicit because they allow the scene to unfold before them without doing anything to stop it (like turning the TV off).

An auteur Austrian director named Michael Haneke actually played with this theme in a film he made called Funny Games (which he later remade nearly scene for scene in America). The film is your average home invasion type horror, but unlike other horror films where we expect at least a few of the victims to get away, Haneke constantly robs the audience of any hope, and forces them to confront the fact that they are participants. He even breaks the fourth wall a number of times (including rewinding the film on the viewer in order to prevent the victims from getting the upper hand).

It's one of my least favorite films because it's so entirely hopeless, and the project is ineffectual because the type of audience he's attempting to confront and teach a lesson to typically wouldn't watch a sadistic mess like Funny Games, while the audience who would want to watch this type of film are usually sick enough that they get a kick out of how sadistic it is.

[KingsGambit]

Film in general has a bit of a voyeuristic touch about it. Even if you weren't the stalker, some critics and directors suggest the audience is complicit because they allow the scene to unfold before them without doing anything to stop it (like turning the TV off).

I didn't get a chance to respond to your post about Christianity and film/art in the other thread awhile back because I was offline for work and by the time I got back, it was buried 10 pages deep but I found it to be a worthwhile post that has made me think (and clearly this is an area of specialty knowledge for you, which I found useful). I may follow up with some thoughts in a new thread later.

[Adrift]

More and more I find it more difficult to watch football because of the violence inherent in it; it's more than just tackling; placing hits is a big part of the game. Baseball and basketball I have an easier time with; there's contact but not on such a violent level.

I don't watch it because it's boring. 3 hour games that could be condensed into like 10 minutes of actual play time for a team full of people I don't personally know, and that I root for simply because they wear the same clothes... No thanks

[KingsGambit]

I don't watch it because it's boring. 3 hour games that could be condensed into like 10 minutes of actual play time for a team full of people I don't personally know, and that I root for simply because they wear the same clothes... No thanks

It's kind of weird that sports (and Jeopardy) are the only type of TV programming I can tune into and not get bored so we are opposite in that way. If I start a movie, I get overwhelmed by the time investment involved. I think the difference with sports is I can step away, come back in an hour, and it's no big deal, I can look at the score and know the context of what's going on. (Also, I'm generally doing something else while watching sports; with other programming, I can't divide my attention and still know what's going on.)