Originally posted by demi-conservative
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Will The Global Warming Hysterics Never Tire Of Being Wrong?
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Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostThere will be positives and negatives to a warmer earth:
Originally posted by demi-conservative View Post(CNN)Could this be good news about global warming? Latest research suggests that human intervention has postponed the beginning of the next ice age.
The researchers suggest that even moderate human interference with the planet's natural carbon balance, through activities such as the burning of fossil fuels, might delay the next glacial cycle by 100,000 years.
Scientists at the Potsdam Institute for Climate Impact Research in Germany have found that the Earth's last eight ice ages can be explained by a relation between insolation -- solar radiation reaching the Earth's surface -- and CO2 concentration in the atmosphere. This also helps to predict future glacial cycles.
So it is duty of humans to prevent it. Burn more coal!!!Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by demi-conservative View Postso it is duty of humans to prevent it. Burn more coal!!!Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostUnfortunately, it is very, very hard to get people to deal with the question of IS the planet warming due to human activity independent from the politics of WHAT SHOULD WE DO ABOUT IT.
Second part turned out to be yuge lies, so many 'point of no returns' gone already. So natural for people to think 'planet is warming' is lie too. Cry more, demi does not care.Remember that you are dust and to dust you shall return.
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Originally posted by seer View PostOK and?
Jim, did you read my link? We don't even know in the past if the rise of Co2 preceded the warming or if the warming drove the rise in Co2. And, I quote:Just where the extra carbon dioxide came from remains unclear as well. So in these past warming trends we don't even know where this extra Co2 came from. And what exactly is the natural equilibrium for the earth? What is the mean? And if we were not cutting down trees and such a rate most of his may be mitigated.
So think about this. You are trying to use an article about a tropical arctic to say we don't really know what is causing global warming - both in terms of 'is it CO2' and 'are we the source of the CO2' - yet the very article you quote says that this arctic tropical event was in fact caused by a significant rise in CO2 AND that the effects of the CO2 on warming may be WORSE that we are predicting.
So the link between CO2 and warming seems rather clear, both historically and in the current time. The only question is - are we the CO2 source that is the problem ... and I don't see how we could not be since the Mouna Loa record is monotonic and we can look at it and observe other natural bursts of CO2(chiefly from volcanoes) from natural sources as blips on an otherwise almost constant rise. We certainly know we are putting CO2 into the atmosphere at an enormous and increasing rate. And - as you point out - we are simultaneously reducing the number of CO2 sinks available through deforestation.
So how is it not likely we are the cause again?
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 08-01-2019, 01:27 PM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostI think maybe you didn't read your link :)
In Hot Water: Ice Age Defrosted by Warming Ocean, Not Rise in CO2
Warmer waters in the deep Pacific triggered the end of the last ice age, preceding the rise in greenhouse gas levels
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a.../in-hot-water/So think about this. You are trying to use an article about a tropical arctic to say we don't really know what is causing global warming - both in terms of 'is it CO2' and 'are we the source of the CO2' - yet the very article you quote says that this arctic tropical event was in fact caused by a significant rise in CO2 AND that the effects of the CO2 on warming may be WORSE that we are predicting.
Again Jim the link said we do not know if the warming was driving higher Co2 levels or the other way around. And as far as us being the source, sure to a degree, but there was a Co2 mysterious source in the past that we do not know as my link said.
So the link between CO2 and warming seems rather clear, both historically and in the current time. The only question is - are we the CO2 source that is the problem ... and I don't see how we could not be since the Mouna Kea record is monotonic and we can look at it and observe other natural bursts of CO2(chiefly from volcanoes) from natural sources as blips on an otherwise almost constant rise. We certainly know we are putting CO2 into the atmosphere at an enormous and increasing rate. And - as you point out - we are simultaneously reducing the number of CO2 sinks available through deforestation.
So how is it not likely we are the cause again?
JimLast edited by seer; 08-01-2019, 01:53 PM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostYes Jim, possible culprits... And you again ignored my quote - was the warming driving higher Co2 levels or the other way around? The link clearly said we do not know, and...
Again Jim the link said we do not know if the warming was driving higher Co2 levels or the other way around. And as far as us being the source, sure to a degree, but there was a Co2 mysterious source in the past that we do not know as my link said.
Not historically Jim, we don't understand past warming well enough to make any firm conclusions. And like I said to Demi, there are positives and negatives to a warmer earth and no one knows which will out weight which. And like I also said, if you don't get China, India, Asia in general and Africa on board in a big way destroying our economy will not make a lick of difference.
As for 'we don't know' - no - we pretty much do know. We are a significant and measurable source of CO2, and the warming trend tracks very closely the increase in CO2. It seems a bit silly to ignore the implications of that on the hope there is really some other hidden and very tricky to find major source of CO2 we just haven't noticed yet.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by seer View PostYou were saying?
"the U.S. National Academy of Sciences declared in 2005 that adding that more than a 90 percent chance) that humans are causing a global temperature change that will reach between 3.2 and 7.2 degrees Fahrenheit by the end of this century".
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...arming-a-myth/
Why risk it?
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAnd like I said - my responses in this thread are not addressing what to do about rising CO2 and temperatures, my responses are to those mocking the science that tells us rising CO2 is causing the current temperature rise, or that the temperature rise is 'manufactured' by some inane global conspiracy to destroy our economy by almost all working climatologists.
As for 'we don't know' - no - we pretty much do know. We are a significant and measurable source of CO2, and the warming trend tracks very closely the increase in CO2. It seems a bit silly to ignore the implications of that on the hope there is really some other hidden and very tricky to find major source of CO2 we just haven't noticed yet.
Jim
co2_temperature_historical.jpgLast edited by seer; 08-02-2019, 07:02 AM.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by Tassman View PostWhy risk it?Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, again, there is good evidence that the ice age ended and the earth warmed because of warmer oceans, and warmer oceans in turn drove the rise in Co2, not the other way around. We think this was caused by Milankovitch cycles, but Milankovitch cycles have their own problems. The point is we do not know all the dynamics. Yes, we are adding to the Co2 into the picture, but are there greater drivers like warmer oceans? And the fact is, a far as we can tell, there is not always a correlation between the rise in Co2 and the rise in temperature.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38808[/ATTACH]
The scientific community does not agree with your opinion. You are therefore making false claims to authority. That makes you a bad person. You might not like the conclusions from the world's scientific community, however, I don't like that I can't be an astronaut. I don't cry about it like a baby though. If you don't want this to destroy your economy, stop denying that there is a problem and change your behaviour to fit reality. You've had more than 30 years to do so, but failed. Because you are greedy more than anything else. At this stage, that is your failure in personal responsibility - which means you get what's coming to you.
Grow up.
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Originally posted by seer View PostJim, again, there is good evidence that the ice age ended and the earth warmed because of warmer oceans, and warmer oceans in turn drove the rise in Co2, not the other way around. We think this was caused by Milankovitch cycles, but Milankovitch cycles have their own problems. The point is we do not know all the dynamics. Yes, we are adding to the Co2 into the picture, but are there greater drivers like warmer oceans? And the fact is, a far as we can tell, there is not always a correlation between the rise in Co2 and the rise in temperature.
[ATTACH=CONFIG]38808[/ATTACH]
https://www.newscientist.com/article...-ice-on-earth/
and
We are coming out of a natural glacial cycle. The warming prior to the last 1000 years anyway, and likely the last 150 or so, was natural. But in the last 150 years with both the industrialization of the planet and the burning of fossil fuels and just the vast population explosion of the last 100 years (population at the turn of the 19th century was just 1 billion - it is almost 8x that now with population doubling in the last 50 years. We effectively walked past the threashold were our contrbutions were minor to major during the 20th century, with the capacity of the planet to absorb the CO2 we generate being significantly breached sometime in the mid 20th century.
Here is the cumulative CO2 emissions of humans since 1850
human CO2 emissions.jpg
here is the graph of the rise in CO2 in the atmosphere since
co2_and_ch4_thick_25pct.png
Notice that the sometime around 1960 in both graphs is where we see a significant uptick in both human emissions and worldwide CO2 levels. We are the wild card there. When you add even then anomaly of Mt. St. Helens and others, the biggest single anomalous contributor is humanity. In fact, on average, human emissions exceed that of volcanoes by 2 orders of magnitude (a factor of almost 100).
https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...oes-or-humans/
As for if there is a feed back from human induced warming that is causing greater outgassing from natural sources - that is possible. But it still puts human CO2 emissions as the cause.
As for reduced capacity to absorb co2 caused by deforestation - that still makes human activity the culprit.
As for greater melting due to the lower albedo of glacial ice due to human produced soot - that may be as well. But it still puts human fossil fuel use as the cause.
As for greater methane adding to the problem due to higher human populations and agriculture - again - it still puts human activity as the cause.
And so on.
AGW = Anthropogenic Global Warming. Everything points in that direction for what is happening the 20th and 21st centuries.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 08-02-2019, 08:49 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by Zara View PostAccording to whom, you and your band of climate change deniers? You are living in a conspiracy theory.
The scientific community does not agree with your opinion. You are therefore making false claims to authority. That makes you a bad person. You might not like the conclusions from the world's scientific community, however, I don't like that I can't be an astronaut. I don't cry about it like a baby though. If you don't want this to destroy your economy, stop denying that there is a problem and change your behaviour to fit reality. You've had more than 30 years to do so, but failed. Because you are greedy more than anything else. At this stage, that is your failure in personal responsibility - which means you get what's coming to you.
Grow up.Atheism is the cult of death, the death of hope. The universe is doomed, you are doomed, the only thing that remains is to await your execution...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jbnueb2OI4o&t=3s
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Originally posted by seer View PostNice talking to you Jim...
My response is respectful and just lays out more data supporting what I believe is the correct conclusion. See above.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 08-02-2019, 08:48 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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