Originally posted by KingsGambit
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Alabama Abortion Ban:
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostAlthough I understand why they might have thought it made sense, I tend to think the lack of an exception for rape and incest is over the top. We have laws that allow a rapist to demand parental rights after the fact. Not so sure it makes sense to force a woman that conceived due to rape to have to endure a lifetime of continuous rape (though his exercise of control over her life and the life of the child) by that person once they get out of prison. Incest is a very odd situation to start with, but again, the lack of an exception is forcing the victim to continue to be a victim for their entire life.
Jim"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
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Have you bought into the lie as well?"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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From what I can tell, the DA in the county where this happened is a pro-choice Democrat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the prosecution of this case fall under him?
Oh, and he's black, too. (Because firstfloor invoked race.)
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...e-updates.html
https://www.wbrc.com/2019/06/07/dann...on-procedures/"I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Sigh... Intent follows the bullet - it doesn't matter that you intended to hurt Bob but hurt Mary instead. The intent to do harm follows the harm.
Because had she killed or caused the death of her intended victim the charge is manslaughter (intent to harm isn't intent to kill) it is automatically manslaughter when she kills or sets in motion the death of an unintended victim, in this case, her unborn child. Yes, that can include provoking an altercation that results in harm or death.
This is fairly well established law. It has nothing to do with abortion - you can't lawfully cause the death of someone's unborn child. And you can't claim your intent to harm another constitutes the decision to have an abortion."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by Teallaura View Post
Because had she killed or caused the death of her intended victim the charge is manslaughter (intent to harm isn't intent to kill) it is automatically manslaughter when she kills or sets in motion the death of an unintended victim, in this case, her unborn child. Yes, that can include provoking an altercation that results in harm or death."I am not angered that the Moral Majority boys campaign against abortion. I am angry when the same men who say, "Save OUR children" bellow "Build more and bigger bombers." That's right! Blast the children in other nations into eternity, or limbless misery as they lay crippled from "OUR" bombers! This does not jell." - Leonard Ravenhill
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostThe law is back in the news again because a woman has been charged with manslaughter after miscarrying. She got into a gunfight and prosecutors are saying she started the fight; therefore she is responsible for the miscarriage.
I think charging her with manslaughter is a real stretch. However, people are going crazy saying this is due to the abortion law. One problem... the law hasn't even taken effect yet. This has literally nothing to do with the law.
https://thehill.com/blogs/blog-brief...ying-when-shot
Now, while I think most invocations of, "Excessive Force," are baloney here in Canada (like a recent case in Manitoba where a guy was given 5 years jail time for killing a guy in self-defense), if there's anything like that in Alabama this would be a perfect time to slap the Self-Defender with them.Have You Touched Grass Today? If Not, Please Do.
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI have a family member who experienced a miscarriage as a direct result of a traffic accident. Under the upcoming law, could a woman who is judged at fault in such an accident (not under the influence; just running a stop sign or something) be charged with manslaughter?
Basically, don't commit felonies while pregnant and this can't come up."He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostFrom what I can tell, the DA in the county where this happened is a pro-choice Democrat. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the prosecution of this case fall under him?
Oh, and he's black, too. (Because firstfloor invoked race.)
https://www.al.com/news/birmingham/2...e-updates.html
https://www.wbrc.com/2019/06/07/dann...on-procedures/"He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain that which he cannot lose." - Jim Elliot
"Forgiveness is the way of love." Gary Chapman
My Personal Blog
My Novella blog (Current Novella Begins on 7/25/14)
Quill Sword
Comment
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Originally posted by Teallaura View PostUm, wouldn't making stricter laws about parental rights be a better solution than killing the baby?
But there are a lot of reasons I don't feel it is right to force a woman to bear the child of her rapist. That doesn't mean I don't think the best choice in the end would be for her to keep the baby assuming she is psychologically capable of doing so, or carrying the baby to term and adopting - again if she can. But to force her to do so is making her the victim of both the rape and the state.
This opinion of mine is also coupled to my recognition that there is a period of time early in the pregnancy when the mind does not yet exist, which I feel tips the balance in favor of the woman's choice early on in this extreme case.
The discussion was heated. And often became personal - so I'll not respond to anything along the lines of how horrible I am for having such an opinion, but if you are interested in discussing that opinion objectively along scientific of scriptural avenues, I'll give it a go.
JimMy brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by KingsGambit View PostI have a family member who experienced a miscarriage as a direct result of a traffic accident. Under the upcoming law, could a woman who is judged at fault in such an accident (not under the influence; just running a stop sign or something) be charged with manslaughter?
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Originally posted by Sparko View PostI think only if the person causing the accident was acting in a manner that any normal person knew was reckless and dangerous and likely to end in a wreck. Like speeding through a red light and t-boning someone. If it were a normal accident where there is really no fault then I don't think anyone can be charged with anyone else's death. I think the death of a fetus is treated just like any other person in the car in cases like this.
I don't understand how, if this is how the law works governing actions that cause the death of a fetus, abortion could be legal at any time during gestation when these sorts of laws apply.
JimLast edited by oxmixmudd; 06-28-2019, 08:53 AM.My brethren, do not hold your faith in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ with an attitude of personal favoritism. James 2:1
If anyone thinks himself to be religious, and yet does not bridle his tongue but deceives his own heart, this man’s religion is worthless James 1:26
This you know, my beloved brethren. But everyone must be quick to hear, slow to speak and slow to anger; James 1:19
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Originally posted by oxmixmudd View PostWhich means our laws on this are in fact self contradictory. If a fetus is legally a person in a car accident, or in the case of the shooting, it should be considered a person wrt the abortion issue.
I don't understand how, if this is how the law works governing actions that cause the death of a fetus, abortion could be legal at any time during gestation when these sorts of laws apply.
Jim
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